mental health is a joke - Page 2 - Vintage Mustang Forums
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post #16 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-01-2018, 08:31 PM
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Wasn't it Reagan that shut down the mental health facilities and put them on the street?
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post #17 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-01-2018, 08:55 PM
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So sorry to hear of this. I've lost a couple of friends to suicide over the last couple of years. I don't have a solution, unfortunately, but I sincerely hope she can get the help that both of you need.

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post #18 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-01-2018, 09:25 PM
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wasn't it reagan that shut down the mental health facilities and put them on the street?
clinton.
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post #19 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-01-2018, 09:26 PM
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So sorry to hear of this. I've lost a couple of friends to suicide over the last couple of years. I don't have a solution, unfortunately, but I sincerely hope she can get the help that both of you need.
+1 I could not have said it better,

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1969 Mustang Sports Roof (SAG = Sports Appearance Group) 1 of only 5,729
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Personal Quote from 5-1-15. ''DRIVE IT LIKE YOU HAVE TO POOP!"

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post #20 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-01-2018, 10:02 PM
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There is a fair amount of misunderstanding and misinformation regarding how the mental health treatment system works in the US. Our family has considerable experience using the services of behavioral health specialists. There isn't enough treatment even for those that can pay out of pocket. Because we rely on a market based system the resources to expand treatment aren't allocated because the profit isn't as good as cancer or childbirth or even dentistry. As a result medical professionals often choose other fields rather than go into mental health.

Those in the mental health field are not paid all that well. Most are making under $25/hr. Those include case workers, administrators, some counselors, etc. Many conflate positions of psychiatrist, psychologist and counselor. The psychiatrist is not who you see on a regular basis for talk therapy. They evaluate your big picture mental health, diagnose conditions and make treatment plans. They also prescribe medicine. Don't expect to see them for more time than is necessary to evaluate your condition and follow up on how you are doing on your meds. The heavy lifting of talk therapy, group and other methods are lead by a different health professional. The median salary is about what it is for other docs. There is a considerable shortage of psychiatrists in the US.

A psychologist or counselor is the one that will handle the bulk of your talk therapy treatment and other aspects of your treatment. The psychiatrist is not the one with which you sit on the couch and work through your issues. That's a psychologist or counselor. This is with whom you'll spend the most time, sometimes a couple of sessions a week. Most make well under $100k/year. In the case of counselors many are lucky to make $50k/year. They are overworked, stressed and there is a shortage of them.

We are fortunate in that we've been using the same provider for a while and our insurance has generous benefits that cover most of the treatment. The most difficult program to enter is the substance abuse program. I met the requirements so I could get in but many didn't or violated the terms of the program and were expelled. Over the course of the time I was in the program a couple of my fellow participants died of overdoses. This was several years ago but even then the most common issue was with opioids. Alcohol was second.

It's not just mental and behavioral health services are high demand but general health services as well. With a market driven system where the primary healthcare product is insurance instead of treatment there is no commercial incentive to make sure people get the right treatment.
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post #21 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-01-2018, 10:24 PM
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Wasn't it Reagan that shut down the mental health facilities and put them on the street?
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clinton.
Under Reagan block grants that were to be given to states to fund mental health were rescinded. Carter had signed the initial bill prior to the election but one of the first things Reagan did was kill it. He also caused significant damage to the state mental healthcare system during his time as the governor of California.

Clinton did no such thing.
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post #22 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-01-2018, 11:15 PM
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Under Reagan block grants that were to be given to states to fund mental health were rescinded. Carter had signed the initial bill prior to the election but one of the first things Reagan did was kill it. He also caused significant damage to the state mental healthcare system during his time as the governor of California.

Clinton did no such thing.
NOT TRUE.

"In 1967, the California legislature passed the Lanterman-Petris-Short Act (LPS), which allowed local, private (i.e., non-state) mental facilities to accept more patients—particularly those with more treatable or milder forms of mental illness.

Governor Reagan signed the bill into law; in his view, this was a win-win: mental health patients would receive treatments, and in turn the funding to state mental facilities could be reduced. Of course, the state facilities cried foul at the cut in funding, even though in theory they were not being under-funded. Of course, with a lower case load, treatments improved; however, some facilities reduced headcount.

Despite the bipartisan plan, unforeseen consequences developed. Without a requirement that all mental health patients go to public facilities, many borderline individuals simply refused private treatment as was their right. The upshot was that many individuals who could have benefited from treatment simply did not get any at all; they wound up as functioning members of the public. And sometimes, problems occurred.

Later, the Carter administration signed into law the Mental Health Systems Act of 1980, which largely promoted the same idea for national facilities. In 1981, when both parties in Congress agreed to the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1981, President Reagan signed that into law. One of it many provisions was to eliminate federal funding for community services and thereby transfer funding back to individual funding or state-funded efforts. Had Reagan even been aware of that part of the Act, he would have immediately realized the Act was negating the disastrous effects of the LPS he experienced as governor of California.

In other words, the State needs more funding control over mental health facilities, whether local, community, or state. Serious cases could still be funded through Medicaid, creating a virtual federal funding pool of money. This was formalized in the Mental Health Planning Act of 1986.

In effect, bipartisan policies recommended that the Federal government transfer government funding of community mental health facilities back to the states. State-funded facilities as well as privately-funded facilities were not affected by that policy. Reagan signed the bill into law as part of an overall spending cut package. As he would have known, complete state funding of facilities resulted in terrible mental healthcare, but state governments had an obligation to provide for this. However, in 1986, he also signed into a law another bipartisan solution to have Medicaid assist with funding. The laws closed not a single facility.

Ergo, to the liberals, REAGAN CLOSED THE MENTAL HEALTH FACILITIES. The fact that states closed some facilities and let staff go at others due to their own budget issues is unimportant because, of course, liberals hated Reagan. And still do.

So when you hear the argument that Reagan closed the mental health facilities, ask the name of one health facility that Reagan actually closed. And when it closed. And how he closed it. And if you hear that Reagan closed it by extenuation of a funding cut, ask which particular bill he signed into law specified that particular facility be closed.

Or is it a case that bipartisan governments at the state and federal levels attempted to improve healthcare treatment and that bipartisan governments within the states screwed things up so badly that individual departments of health closed down less effective facilities? You will have lost the typical liberal at the word bipartisan."
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2014 Mustang V6 premium pony package
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Personal Quote from 5-1-15. ''DRIVE IT LIKE YOU HAVE TO POOP!"

"It was a beautiful day, the sun beat down
I had the radio on, I was drivin'
Trees flew by, me and Del were singin' little Runaway
I was flyin'"
Tom Petty, Runnin Down A Dream.

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post #23 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-02-2018, 02:03 AM
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Joe do try to keep your ranting and diatribe to addressing what I actually said, not what you wanted me to say so you could filibuster a political view. There is no need to attempt to insult others that may not have the same opinions and thoughts as you. Respect goes both ways.

I stated that Reagan killed the funding for block grants to states for mental health care. That is 100% factually correct. That money was going to address mental health care and was granted from the previous administration. It disappeared soon after he took office. I never said Reagan closed any hospitals.

You were able to pen a quite verbose response spinning what the Reagan administration did but nothing about backing up what you said about Clinton. In citing the funding cut I was responding directly to your accusation. Clinton was no angel and shady in his own right but he didn't impact mental health care funding in the way Reagan did both as President and Governor. You didn't remember all of that in that sort of detail. It was nearly 40 years ago. You've likely cribbed it from some site. Regardless, what happened then is just another brick in the wall to support and endorse the stigmatization of people with behavioral health issues.

Reagan's bias and prejudice toward mental and behavioral health issues is well known and widely documented. It's appropriate to discuss it because to this day many suffer the same stigmatization. This isn't a liberal or conservative issue. It's a human issue. While many give lip service of well wishes to families like the OP many of these people still harbor bias and prejudice. For the most part substance abuse gets a pass but other illnesses like depression or bi-polar disorder are seen as not real or something that those should just "get over". It doesn't work like that. These are serious health issues that require medical treatment just as if you had a heart attack or cancer.
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post #24 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-02-2018, 08:36 AM
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"This isn't a liberal or conservative issue. It's a human issue."

Well said. Now I am wondering if a health care system like The UK or Australia has would make great strides towards solving this crisis? They could seek treatment on a regular basis regardless of ability to pay. Just curious as this may happen here sooner or later.

Last edited by gwstang; 03-02-2018 at 08:38 AM.
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post #25 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-02-2018, 09:35 AM
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Carter/Reagan/Clinton biases aside. We started this slippery slope toward neglect with JFK's Community Mental Health Act. As long as we continue to see it as a stigma that stays with a person permanently there won't be an effective solution.

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post #26 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-02-2018, 10:09 AM
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