5.0 EFI Motor install - what can I get rid of - Vintage Mustang Forums
 4Likes
  • 1 Post By New2me
  • 1 Post By GypsyR
  • 1 Post By TheDraytone
  • 1 Post By Phydeauxman
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-30-2019, 06:14 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
Supporting Member
 
Phydeauxman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 625
5.0 EFI Motor install - what can I get rid of

I have a complete (Intake to pan, along with the harness and computer) 5.0 motor out of a 91 GT that I want to prep to install into my 68 coupe. I want to stick with the harness/EFI/electronics that the 5.0 uses and am trying to determine what I can get rid of. I am sure I will need a tuner to turn some things off but trying to see what off of the motor I can just ditch before I put it in. Things like the smog system. What do I do about the pipe on the back of the heads that is party of the emissions system (I believe)?

Additionally, for any that read this thread that might have some experience with this...do not have a transmission yet and need to determine what I want to go with. I want to go with an automatic. Would like to use a tranny that has an overdrive for long drives but want something strong enough where the car can dos some strip duty.

- 65 2+2 Fastback 289 4V 4-Speed (Mostly stock, under restoration)
- 68 Coupe, (32000 original miles), 2V C4. Resto-modding, TCI suspension, 5.0 EFI conversion w/5 speed
Phydeauxman is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-30-2019, 07:28 AM
Senior Member
 
New2me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Michigan
Posts: 339
I can't tell you too much about the motor. When I put a 5.0 in my 65, I used as much 289 stuff as I could. I do know that you'll need a front sump oil pan and oil pick up tube.

For an automatic transmission, I'd go with a 98-04 4r70w transmission and a USshift quick 4 or quick 6 controller. Earlier aod and e4od transmissions aren't as strong internally.
Grimbrand likes this.
New2me is offline  
post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-30-2019, 07:49 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
Supporting Member
 
Phydeauxman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 625
Quote:
Originally Posted by New2me View Post
I can't tell you too much about the motor. When I put a 5.0 in my 65, I used as much 289 stuff as I could. I do know that you'll need a front sump oil pan and oil pick up tube.

For an automatic transmission, I'd go with a 98-04 4r70w transmission and a USshift quick 4 or quick 6 controller. Earlier aod and e4od transmissions aren't as strong internally.
Thanks for the info. The 68 has not motor so I don't have 289 stuff to use on it. Planning to use FPA long tube headers. Thanks for the tip on the trans.

- 65 2+2 Fastback 289 4V 4-Speed (Mostly stock, under restoration)
- 68 Coupe, (32000 original miles), 2V C4. Resto-modding, TCI suspension, 5.0 EFI conversion w/5 speed
Phydeauxman is offline  
 
post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-30-2019, 10:37 AM
Just some guy
Supporting Member
 
GypsyR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: SC foothills, USA
Posts: 18,658
Garage
I did the same as new2me. I stripped a 5.0 down to block and heads and dressed it up in carbureted clothes. It's a LOT easier to do.

The normal thing to is use a '91 transmission. So that would be an AOD or a T5. The computer you have will be tuned for one or the other, whichever your donor car had. Not a huge deal as neither transmission has any actual direct connection to the ECM. If you want to run a better automatic, a 4R70W is that but you will be really compounding your electrical complications as one will require a standalone ECM because the '91 ECM has no transmission control capability.

The crossover tube in the back is for air injection. Some people will cut and pinch the tubes off at each head. Sorta works but tends to leak and is kind of cheesy. Better is to remove it and screw in the block off threaded inserts you can buy from Ford. Be aware the threads in the heads have never been used and will be VERY carboned up. Once cleaned out you just screw the inserts in as far as you can and done. Neat and clean. If you look hard enough you can see these same inserts were put into the "front" of your heads at the factory.
BlakeTX likes this.
GypsyR is offline  
post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-30-2019, 12:41 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,227
I originally installed the 5.0L engine with the EFI and didnt care for it, after a couple years like the the previous posters, I took all of the EFI stuff off and made it carbureted and was a happy guy. Regardless, there's some good internet info out there on cleaning up the wiring harness to retain just what you need for a stand alone engine harness. You can also take the simple but more expensive route and buy an aftermarket harness and it'll be plug and play. To physically sit the engine, you'll need to switch to a front sump oil pan, remove the oil dipstick on the drivers side of the block and plug the hole and get a new front timing cover with provisions for an oil dipstick.

65 coupe 5.0L/5 speed
2001 Lightning #1757
Lightning is offline  
post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-30-2019, 12:48 PM
Dimples
 
BlakeTX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 2,932
Garage
Gypsy hit a lot of the points I was going for. Also worth mentioning, you'll need to plumb a return line to the tank and some sort of solution for an electric fuel pump. Lots of ways to skin that cat. I recommend google on that one.

I'm not an expert, but I play one on the internet.
BlakeTX is online now  
post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-30-2019, 02:10 PM
Senior Member
 
Grimbrand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Sedgwick, Kansas
Posts: 337
Going with EFI presents a lot of challenges. There will be a lot more wiring, and you'll be running new high pressure fuel lines. You'll probably want to run an EFI fuel tank too, with baffles to prevent starvation.

The Ford style fuel injection requires either a cable-style pedal (which I hated on my '67) or you can turn the upper plenum around 'backwards' so the air intake is on the right. That will let you use the stock linkage, but will require more wiring. On the plus side, you don't have to move the battery, once the air intake is on the driver's side.

The biggest drawback to the stock 'flop hat' Ford injection system is that you can't run a normal export brace. It just won't clear. For that reason if no other, you'd be much better with a carburetor style intake.

If you do go with a carb-type intake, then you need to decide whether you want to go carbureted or fuel-injected with a carb-type throttle body. Holley Sniper is my personal favorite, but the Atomic EFI system and FiTech can work well too. You can't be too careful in wiring them so they get a clean power supply. Don't forget, you'll still need to deal with a high-pressure pump, special tank, and fuel plumbing if you go that route.

EFI systems should use a single-plane manifold. They don't suffer from the same problems a carb does at low RPMs, but they will have problems with a dual-plane manifold. It's my understanding that the EFI gets confused about pulse timing from side-to-side with the two separate planes, and this causes all manner of idle and tuning problems, along with stumbling.

For a carbed system, you're better off with a good dual-plane like an Edelbrock Air-Gap, or Weiand Stealth. I really like Summit's M-series carbs, which are essentially based on the old Autolite 4100, but with some other nice features. Inexpensive, but excellent.

If you want a 4 speed automatic, the AOD will work, but in stock form, the shift quality is mediocre, and they are prone to burning up friction materials or shearing their lockup torque converter shaft if you make full throttle 2-3 and 3-4 shifts. IMHO, you are much better off going with a 4R70W transmission, and spending the money for a Baumann controller. It's essentially an updated version of the AOD with stronger parts, using electronics to shift instead of hydraulic circuits. Shift quality is much improved, and even in stock form, they can handle far more power than a stock-block 5.0 can deliver.

While it's possible to make an AOD into a decent transmission, you generally have to give up the lockup torque converter features and go to a 1-piece input shaft, as well as adding some of the upgraded features from its descendant, the 4R70W. By the time you put in the money and effort to do all of that, you might as well have started with the better transmission anyway.

Both the AOD and the 4R70W require a different transmission mount, and probably some exhaust and driveshaft work as well.

I am also fond of the good old C4 automatic. They're lightweight, shift great, and they're tough. But of course, you have only three gears, so there are some compromises. I run mine with 2.80 rear gears, which hurts my acceleration from a dead stop, but makes it a joy once she's rolling. Because my drive shaft spins slower, I also have a lot less driveline vibration. If you put in steeper rear gears, you can have all the fun and tire smoke you want, but your highway RPMs will increase proportionately.

Best wishes!
Grimbrand is online now  
post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-01-2019, 01:26 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 163
Garage
I'm in the process of doing this in my '66. The thing that keeps surprising me is just how many odds and ends show up when doing a project like this. I bought the entire running engine / trans / computer from my buddy for $500 so thought I was in good shape. I've easily spent that much and then some on all the bits to get the thing in there.

A few things to think about that i've come across -

* Front sump oil pan
* Dipstick relocation to timing cover
* Radiator - I believe if you already have a 289 one of the fittings is on the wrong side.
* Fan - The stock fan may not fit between the engine and radiator requiring an electric fan or shorter mechanical
* Belt path - Need to consider delete kits / pulleys / water pump direction
* Engine mounts - Maybe able to use your existing mounts
* Transmission crossmember
* Driveshaft length - Should be the same, may need a different yoke depending on trans
* Exhaust headers / pipes
* If running long tube headers, may need a mini starter for clearance
* Air filter
* Battery location
* EFI Fuel system / return lines
* Computer mounting / harness routing
* Electrical re-wiring / new fuse panel / relays etc

Just a few things off the top of my head. Don't let it turn you off. I'm doing this now with the AOD trans. Really expecting it to be worth all the work!

-Rob
Grimbrand likes this.

An Aussie kid living in LA.....

My '66 Coupe Project Journal
TheDraytone is offline  
post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-01-2019, 12:19 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
Supporting Member
 
Phydeauxman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 625
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimbrand View Post
Going with EFI presents a lot of challenges. There will be a lot more wiring, and you'll be running new high pressure fuel lines. You'll probably want to run an EFI fuel tank too, with baffles to prevent starvation.

The Ford style fuel injection requires either a cable-style pedal (which I hated on my '67) or you can turn the upper plenum around 'backwards' so the air intake is on the right. That will let you use the stock linkage, but will require more wiring. On the plus side, you don't have to move the battery, once the air intake is on the driver's side.

The biggest drawback to the stock 'flop hat' Ford injection system is that you can't run a normal export brace. It just won't clear. For that reason if no other, you'd be much better with a carburetor style intake.

If you do go with a carb-type intake, then you need to decide whether you want to go carbureted or fuel-injected with a carb-type throttle body. Holley Sniper is my personal favorite, but the Atomic EFI system and FiTech can work well too. You can't be too careful in wiring them so they get a clean power supply. Don't forget, you'll still need to deal with a high-pressure pump, special tank, and fuel plumbing if you go that route.

EFI systems should use a single-plane manifold. They don't suffer from the same problems a carb does at low RPMs, but they will have problems with a dual-plane manifold. It's my understanding that the EFI gets confused about pulse timing from side-to-side with the two separate planes, and this causes all manner of idle and tuning problems, along with stumbling.

For a carbed system, you're better off with a good dual-plane like an Edelbrock Air-Gap, or Weiand Stealth. I really like Summit's M-series carbs, which are essentially based on the old Autolite 4100, but with some other nice features. Inexpensive, but excellent.

If you want a 4 speed automatic, the AOD will work, but in stock form, the shift quality is mediocre, and they are prone to burning up friction materials or shearing their lockup torque converter shaft if you make full throttle 2-3 and 3-4 shifts. IMHO, you are much better off going with a 4R70W transmission, and spending the money for a Baumann controller. It's essentially an updated version of the AOD with stronger parts, using electronics to shift instead of hydraulic circuits. Shift quality is much improved, and even in stock form, they can handle far more power than a stock-block 5.0 can deliver.

While it's possible to make an AOD into a decent transmission, you generally have to give up the lockup torque converter features and go to a 1-piece input shaft, as well as adding some of the upgraded features from its descendant, the 4R70W. By the time you put in the money and effort to do all of that, you might as well have started with the better transmission anyway.

Both the AOD and the 4R70W require a different transmission mount, and probably some exhaust and driveshaft work as well.

I am also fond of the good old C4 automatic. They're lightweight, shift great, and they're tough. But of course, you have only three gears, so there are some compromises. I run mine with 2.80 rear gears, which hurts my acceleration from a dead stop, but makes it a joy once she's rolling. Because my drive shaft spins slower, I also have a lot less driveline vibration. If you put in steeper rear gears, you can have all the fun and tire smoke you want, but your highway RPMs will increase proportionately.

Best wishes!
Thanks for all of the great info Grimbrand. Have lots of decisions to make but looking forward to the challenge of making this work...and the challenge of not going broke in the process
Grimbrand likes this.

- 65 2+2 Fastback 289 4V 4-Speed (Mostly stock, under restoration)
- 68 Coupe, (32000 original miles), 2V C4. Resto-modding, TCI suspension, 5.0 EFI conversion w/5 speed
Phydeauxman is offline  
post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-02-2019, 05:43 PM
Senior Member
 
Greg'66 5.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Exeter, NH
Posts: 2,332
I did the same conversion in my '66. I am running the EFI and T56 6-speed manual.

PM me an e-mail address and I'll send some EFI conversion documents to you. They explain what you can remove from the EFI harness and how to do it.

'66 Emberglo Coupe
Modifications:
5.0 EFI conversion
TwEECer EFI tuning
T56 6-speed
Rod & Custom Motorsports IFS
TCP subframe connectors
Vintage Air Heat & AC

'99 Black Cobra - Daily driver
Greg'66 5.0 is offline  
post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-02-2019, 05:51 PM
Senior Member
 
Grimbrand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Sedgwick, Kansas
Posts: 337
Just another basic FYI - even if you use the factory Ford EEC-IV flophat intake, make sure you get some kind of shock tower bracing that works. Don't run without it. These cars require triangulation to the firewall, and eliminating that brace lets things flex a lot. Your handling will suffer, your hood may get damaged, and it's not uncommon for massive cracks to appear in the shock towers themselves.

Good luck with your conversion, and keep us posted! =)
Grimbrand is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Vintage Mustang Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For those that have done a 5.0 EFI conversion.... TheDraytone Vintage Mustang Forum 15 04-26-2019 07:55 PM
After 5.0 EFI Conversion, what did you do with your wiring! TheDraytone Mod and Custom Forum 2 04-24-2019 01:14 AM
94-95 5.0 EFI front accessory swap with 289 v belt possible? OldManJenkins Vintage Mustang Forum 12 08-24-2018 07:12 AM
Need help with a vortech supercharger 5.0 efi motor in a 1965 mustang Efrain Vintage Mustang Forum 4 07-26-2018 06:35 PM
87-93 5.0 EFI setup Cobra-Jet Engine and Drivetrain Parts For Sale 0 06-30-2018 09:51 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome