SBF starter options - Vintage Mustang Forums
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-31-2019, 02:51 PM Thread Starter
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SBF starter options

So I'm about to get my 68 back on the road, and I was looking to lastly upgrade my starter. I have a 302 in now and will be building probably a 427 not too far off.


I want a new starter first off for reliability and want one that would also be good for a 351 based stroker.


I also don't like the cranking sound of the old starter,and am hoping to put in a new one that has a cranking sound of the newer fox body 5.0's.


So what starter motor is a good one and what other changes would be necessary to make it work ??


thanks !

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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-31-2019, 03:45 PM
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Today only! 5/31/19

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https://www.dbelectrical.com/starter.../ford/mustang/

I have one of the Ford Mini Pmgr starters. It started dragging. I called during the warranty period and they immediately sent another out to me, no charge.

You will have to change the wiring on your starter relay to make the Mini Pmgr starters work properly. Also make sure you are ordering the correct one for A/T or Manual.

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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-31-2019, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by 69GT350H View Post
Also make sure you are ordering the correct one for A/T or Manual.

Perpetuating the old wives' tale of AT vs. MT starters again.
AT or MT has absolutely nothing to do with proper starter selection. 157T or 164T has everything to do with proper starter selection.
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-31-2019, 11:13 PM
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Perpetuating the old wives' tale of AT vs. MT starters again.
AT or MT has absolutely nothing to do with proper starter selection. 157T or 164T has everything to do with proper starter selection.
How about we just go with this post.

https://forums.vintage-mustang.com/v...l#post10064538
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-01-2019, 12:44 AM
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Perpetuating the old wives' tale of AT vs. MT starters again.
AT or MT has absolutely nothing to do with proper starter selection. 157T or 164T has everything to do with proper starter selection.
For a '68 and expecting it to be a '68 engine it is most appropriate to rely on the M/T or Auto and getting the right one.
Either way you only get the wrong one once

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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-04-2019, 02:12 PM Thread Starter
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What is the newer style starter that sounds better than my old starter cranking noise ?

Ford True Blue paint, 17X8 Edelbrock 454 wheels, waiting to install AOD/2,800 rpm stall / 8.8 rear with 373 gears / 4 wheel disc brakes. / Xpipe, Dynomax Ultraflows . More pictures here-->http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/vi...-few-pics.html
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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-04-2019, 06:42 PM
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What is the newer style starter that sounds better than my old starter cranking noise ?
Umm, I feel like I should just copy and paste post #2. PGMR=later Fox 5.0 starter. IE, 69GT350H HAS answered your question.
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.... it wouldn't be the first time reality took theory and conjecture out behind the woodshed and gave them a good thrashing.
I have some cars. With a long list of parts on them that if anyone was interested in, they'd ask.
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-06-2019, 10:56 AM
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+1 on the Fox or SN95/S197 V6 PMGR starter.

FWIW, though, if you're considering a 351W-based stroker with a manual transmission the chances are that you'll need a "automatic" starter for a 164-tooth flywheel as you'll undoubtedly want to run the largest diameter clutch possible.

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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-08-2019, 12:20 AM Thread Starter
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WTF is your problem Gypsy ? If taking **** off you is a requirement to get help I don’t want it from you, not at all.

Im asking a simple question if that hurts your feelings please move on.

Internet forums are all the same now days. Ask a simple question and it’s open season for a holes to run their mouth.

Thanks to those for the help. In the mean time my car is on the rack and my mechanic just ordered a power master. Hopefully it will be what I wanted, he says it will work with my next motor and auto trans planning on a 4R70W hopefully it works out and I won’t have to buy another starter later.

I still don’t know what a PMGR is or know what it takes to make it work with my current and future set ups but thanks for the links to a full education about starters.

Ford True Blue paint, 17X8 Edelbrock 454 wheels, waiting to install AOD/2,800 rpm stall / 8.8 rear with 373 gears / 4 wheel disc brakes. / Xpipe, Dynomax Ultraflows . More pictures here-->http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/vi...-few-pics.html
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-08-2019, 01:10 AM
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While Gypsy can definitely stick up for himself, knowing him, I don't think he was taking a cheap shot at you - just directing you back to the post with the info you needed. =)

Sweet car. '68!! Love the color, stance, wheels - well done.

The gear reduction starters spin up high-compression engines a lot easier than the original design, and save weight too, so for an already-modded car, they sure make sense. Not just because of the sound.


One last note: 4R70W transmissions mostly use 164 tooth flexplates, so if your starter was made for a 157 tooth flywheel/flexplate, you will probably have to change 'em out again. But that's a great transmission.

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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-08-2019, 07:16 AM
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I'm on a lot of forums and I have noticed there is indeed a recurring them on them. Someone asks a question. Receives a quick and definitive answer. Fails to understand that answer and then gets mad at the people pointing out that the question has already pretty well been answered. I have seen it before, though I wouldn't go as far as saying forums are all the same. Some people are the same on them though. Many long term members tend to get burned out answering the exact same questions for people who has no apparent interest in searching for their answers. I may be guilty of that, I'll admit. Plus the old saw "you can lead a horse to water..." comes to mind.

Being on a lot of forums, I run into a lot of stuff I don't know or fully understand. That's why I go to them to start with. Very often I will run into a new acronym I haven't seen before, like say "LMGTFY". It is not a problem for me, Google is always at my right hand. Even literally on this particular forum, the VMF has a Google search in the top right corner of almost every page.

But anyway, though a PMGR starter isn't strictly speaking a "Fox" starter everyone who has responded got what you meant. That 69 guy in post #2 linked to the hands down most popular place for VMF members to buy them, it's a very popular swap.

Strictly speaking, calling people names is against the rules here. I believe there has been basically a simple miscommunication here though so it can probably be overlooked at this time.
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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-08-2019, 08:05 AM
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VMF has a Google search in the top right corner of almost every page.
Huh, you know I never noticed that Icon after all these years !
That is quite convenient, thanks

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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-08-2019, 08:47 AM
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FWIW, though, if you're considering a 351W-based stroker with a manual transmission the chances are that you'll need a "automatic" starter for a 164-tooth flywheel as you'll undoubtedly want to run the largest diameter clutch possible.

FWIW: The factory Ford 164T flywheel that I am using requires the so called "manual" starter. It is the short nose starter. The one where the drive gear completely retracts into the nose. This one:


https://www.tomsbroncoparts.com/prod...-truck-new-tbp
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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-08-2019, 10:25 AM
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WTF is your problem Gypsy ? If taking **** off you is a requirement to get help I donít want it from you, not at all.
Completely uncalled for.

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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-08-2019, 10:57 AM
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WTF is your problem Gypsy ? If taking **** off you is a requirement to get help I donít want it from you, not at all.

...
I agree, I think you took GypsyR's comment the wrong way, but I'm not going to tell you how to feel.

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...That 69 guy in post #2 linked to ... Strictly speaking, calling people names is against the rules here. I believe there has been basically a simple miscommunication here though so it can probably be overlooked at this time.
"That 69 guy" GypsyR, are you calling me names?

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