Thoughts on this combo - Vintage Mustang Forums
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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-15-2019, 05:45 PM Thread Starter
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Thoughts on this combo

Sometimes I feel like a dog chasing squirrels regarding this car but anyhow. Whats your thoughts on this combo on a 306 with an Edelbrock performer RPM intake.

AFR 185's
COMP Extreme Energy 274 (230/236 duration w .52/523 lift at .050)
QF Brawler 650

Currently has a Edelbrock performer RPM heads and a COMP 270H grind cam. Car is at 285RWHP/301TQ - pre tune and a big carb (QF750) -- pre tune.

Been tuning the crud out of the carb and working on timing issues - getting it very very close to being dialed in. Should have some gains just from the tune (see some previous posts)

I have aftermarket KB pistons. Called them today to verify valve reliefs. They say they are cut to handle 1.88 on exhaust and 2.12 on intake.

Worth the spend?

Sorry - should have added. Goals are to have it pulling past 6K and looking to get to 330'ish RHWP.

-J

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1966 Coupe - 302 with some stuff on it

Last edited by John_in_SC; 07-15-2019 at 05:48 PM.
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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-15-2019, 06:39 PM
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I guess that depends on how big a deal the cost of a carb/heads are to you. Why buy a 650 when you have a good 750? It won't help your HP goal, just tune what you have. IDK about the heads, they are better, but I'd be tempted to try a cam swap first. It depends on if you're ok with creeping up on it, or if you just want to make one big change and be done with it.

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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-15-2019, 07:52 PM
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330 RWHP is going to be a pretty aggressive engine at those cubes. you are going to have to have some high gears or it will be a dog off the line until it winds up.

It sounds like you have a pretty good peak HP numbers right now. I understand the need for more. Your engine has value. Why don't you sell it and pick up a 351W and stroke it to 408. At the end of the day you will spend the same money after the sale of your current setup and you will have 100 more HP than you will ever get out of a 306.

Last edited by Tom65; 07-15-2019 at 07:58 PM.
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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-16-2019, 05:20 PM
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I made 324rwhp right around 6000 RPM with this combo:

306
10.75:1 Compression
TFS 170cc heads with Anderson Valve Springs
Anderson B-41 Cam (0.544/0.568, 228/236 112 LSA)
1-3/4" Headers
Edelbrock RPM AirGap
Holley Street Avenger 670, 1" Open Spacer
Pertronix Distributor and Coil

Lays down two strips of rubber just stomping the gas from a stop with 3.55s.
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Last edited by jdub; 07-16-2019 at 05:23 PM.
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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-16-2019, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdub View Post
I made 324rwhp right around 6000 RPM with this combo:

306
10.75:1 Compression
TFS 170cc heads with Anderson Valve Springs
Anderson B-41 Cam (0.544/0.568, 228/236 112 LSA)
1-3/4" Headers
Edelbrock RPM AirGap
Holley Street Avenger 670, 1" Open Spacer
Pertronix Distributor and Coil

Lays down two strips of rubber just stomping the gas from a stop with 3.55s.
sounds like the formula!! Is your bottom end stock or have you gone through it?
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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-16-2019, 06:18 PM
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The block is a factory roller block, the crank is stock reconditioned, the rods are generic aftermarket I-beams and the pistons are KB domes for TrickFlow heads.

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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-16-2019, 08:07 PM
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What's your actual *goal* with this engine? Not "horsepower number" but what do you want to use it for? You can make a peaky 'race motor' that hits 330 really easy, and still feels like an absolute dog. What kind of rear gears? What transmission?



Are you looking for something that makes nasty power at any speed and RPM, or just trying to hit 330 for the number's sake?

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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-16-2019, 09:11 PM
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The block is a factory roller block, the crank is stock reconditioned, the rods are generic aftermarket I-beams and the pistons are KB domes for TrickFlow heads.
What gas are you able to use with this setup?

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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-16-2019, 11:28 PM
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We have 91 octane here.

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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-17-2019, 01:23 AM
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We have 91 octane here.
Can you run any pump gas with it or you must run premium? I'm just wondering how sensitive your combo is to various grades of gas with that CR as I have a very similar build and I'm planning to upgrade heads.

Thanks!

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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-17-2019, 12:18 PM
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I wouldn't even bother to try.

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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-19-2019, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimbrand View Post
You can make a peaky 'race motor' that hits 330 really easy, and still feels like an absolute dog.
I was unable to build this alleged mystery 330rwhp 302 that feels like an absolute dog everyone always talks about. It's probably time for this myth to die.

Hot Rod Magazine from 1988 called and wants the thing someone's uncle read in it about a 9000 RPM engine, and repeated about every 6000 RPM engine, back.

If you build a 302 right it should hit 365-400hp somewhere between 6000 and 6500 RPM and it won't be a dog at any RPM.

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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-19-2019, 10:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdub View Post
I was unable to build this alleged mystery 330rwhp 302 that feels like an absolute dog everyone always talks about. It's probably time for this myth to die.

Hot Rod Magazine from 1988 called and wants the thing someone's uncle read in it about a 9000 RPM engine, and repeated about every 6000 RPM engine, back.

If you build a 302 right it should hit 365-400hp somewhere between 6000 and 6500 RPM and it won't be a dog at any RPM.

I absolutely agree with the 'if you build it right' part.


But you have to consider all the parts. If you build a 330 horse 302 that's making peak at 6500 RPMs, and you hook it up to a C4 with a stock converter and 2.80 rear gears, all you will ever feel when you stomp the skinny pedal is sadness and disappointment. That's 'an absolute dog'. You have to take into consideration not only peak horsepower, but also basic driveability and the rest of the car, including gears and transmission.

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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-19-2019, 11:56 PM
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Of course supporting modifications are necessary. I would think that would be a given.

Stock C4, if in good condition, is fine for any N/A 302. Some sort of posi is nice. I have 3.55s with a factory 8" Equaloc, TCI StreetFighter C4 with PA Servo that shifts a bit too much like stock and a PTC race converter.

The converter is probably the only part that would be strictly necessary. Gears help but they help a stock 289 too- it was the first mod I did.

In the end I don't think there's anything wrong with going more mild, sometimes I wish I would have. But there's no way a more mild 289 or 302 will be faster in any situation. That's the delusion I take issue with. If you have 75 less horsepower than me- don't care how much torque you have at what RPM- you're going to get pumped hard.

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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-20-2019, 01:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdub View Post
Of course supporting modifications are necessary. I would think that would be a given.

Stock C4, if in good condition, is fine for any N/A 302. Some sort of posi is nice. I have 3.55s with a factory 8" Equaloc, TCI StreetFighter C4 with PA Servo that shifts a bit too much like stock and a PTC race converter.

The converter is probably the only part that would be strictly necessary. Gears help but they help a stock 289 too- it was the first mod I did.

In the end I don't think there's anything wrong with going more mild, sometimes I wish I would have. But there's no way a more mild 289 or 302 will be faster in any situation. That's the delusion I take issue with. If you have 75 less horsepower than me- don't care how much torque you have at what RPM- you're going to get pumped hard.
as long as you are confident that is all that matters.

Last edited by Tom65; 07-20-2019 at 01:59 AM.
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