New member - being cheated by GatewayClassicCars - Page 9 - Vintage Mustang Forums
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post #121 of 160 (permalink) Old 06-19-2018, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Fordguy65 View Post
I have zero empathy for the baron. If you buy a spendy 50 yr old car without having it inspected by a qualified third party then the only one you have to blame is yourself.
Deceit is deceit, sly is sly, laziness is laziness, both members have some fault. Depending on your core values you'll weigh one values more than the other.


If the business made the claim, and this is how the business operates around selling vintage cars - well then...
I can go around and use that argument to take advantage of people and make them feel sorry for themselves for not doing their part

(sociopath or psychopath I tend to confuse which ones which but it's one of them)
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post #122 of 160 (permalink) Old 06-20-2018, 09:04 AM Thread Starter
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I have zero empathy for the baron. If you buy a spendy 50 yr old car without having it inspected by a qualified third party then the only one you have to blame is yourself.

So you are saying that if a PROFESSIONAL classic car dealer, who btw claims to be the world’s largest, makes a claim like „COMPLETELY RESTORED“ which in fact is a lie, this is totally normal? I‘m in agreement with a lot of people who simply call this fraud.
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post #123 of 160 (permalink) Old 06-20-2018, 09:47 AM Thread Starter
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And ...

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Originally Posted by Fordguy65 View Post
I have zero empathy for the baron.

I‘m not sharing this here in order to receive empathy. This is just to alert other Mustang enthusiasts about the fraudulent sales practices at Gateway Classic Cars. Fortunately, I have proof that potential buyers already did refrain from buying a car from GCC after reading my story - which is a good achievement so far. And there will be more ...
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post #124 of 160 (permalink) Old 06-20-2018, 11:15 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mooneyman View Post
Mr. Becker was present and negotiated the price after several hours of inspection and negotiations.


Great to have people popping up here from GatewayClassicCars, a fraudulent sales organization, just for one stupid posting without any notable content!
As I mentioned here earlier Mr. Mooneyman, or let me name you Sal Akbani, a fish rots from the head down ...
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post #125 of 160 (permalink) Old 06-20-2018, 11:35 AM
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Used car fraud has been around since the first used car went up for sale. Sad, but it is what it is. Probably worse for classic cars than regular used cars.

Dave
'68 GTCS
8R01J
C4/PS/PB/AC
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post #126 of 160 (permalink) Old 06-20-2018, 12:42 PM Thread Starter
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Used car fraud has been around since the first used car went up for sale.

Absolutely! That‘s the reason why we did not go to a small dealership but to a large nationwide organization like GCC which at least gives a (wrong!) first impression of being a serious and knowledgeable dealer. We did by far not expect that high level of crime and fraud from there - that was our fault!
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post #127 of 160 (permalink) Old 06-21-2018, 10:27 AM
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Anyone who walks into a Gateway, Frasier-Dante, etc. knows what they are getting. There is one near us we go to every month or so to walk thru the warehouse. All of them are for sale and all the descriptions are written to sell. There is also AS IS in large print on every car.
It is foolish to spend Gateway level money on a car without having it inspected and then immediately shipping it out of the country.
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1965 Coupe 5.0 GT40 Intake and Heads, 65MM TB, chipped, T5, Shelby drop, roller idler, subframe connectors, Magnaflows, Hurst shifter, MS clutch, BFGs on 15" TTDs, Roller perches, Bilsteins, 3.54 gears, LS, Needs everything else...
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post #128 of 160 (permalink) Old 06-21-2018, 10:50 AM
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"Anyone who walks into a Gateway, Frasier-Dante, etc. knows what they are getting. " Having never even heard of these people I expect I would NOT know what I would be getting.
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post #129 of 160 (permalink) Old 06-21-2018, 11:42 AM Thread Starter
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New member - being cheated by GatewayClassicCars

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fordguy65 View Post

It is foolish ...

You haven’t answered my question if you think it‘s normal to make a claim like „COMPLETELY RESTORED“ if it is definitely not completely restored.

Is it really common in the United States to lie to a buyer and to make such wrong claims on purpose to sell a car in a professional dealership? Maybe that‘s indeed the case and so obviously it’s a big difference to Europe where this would be illegal and criminal.
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post #130 of 160 (permalink) Old 06-22-2018, 08:56 AM
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"Anyone who walks into a Gateway, Frasier-Dante, etc. knows what they are getting. " Having never even heard of these people I expect I would NOT know what I would be getting.
Sorry. Frasier Dante is another large classic car broker/marketer in GA. Same business model.

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Originally Posted by Redbaron View Post
You haven’t answered my question if you think it‘s normal to make a claim like „COMPLETELY RESTORED“ if it is definitely not completely restored.

Is it really common in the United States to lie to a buyer and to make such wrong claims on purpose to sell a car in a professional dealership? Maybe that‘s indeed the case and so obviously it’s a big difference to Europe where this would be illegal and criminal.
Gateway is not a dealership. They don't own the cars they sell. They provide marketing and transaction services. That is why there is a large SOLD AS IS label on every vehicle in their showroom. A purchase there should be approached the same way as with a private party - with a healthy dose of skepticism.

A fool and his money...

Jim Smith
Atlanta, GA
1965 Coupe 5.0 GT40 Intake and Heads, 65MM TB, chipped, T5, Shelby drop, roller idler, subframe connectors, Magnaflows, Hurst shifter, MS clutch, BFGs on 15" TTDs, Roller perches, Bilsteins, 3.54 gears, LS, Needs everything else...
"If you didn't build it; it's not really yours."
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post #131 of 160 (permalink) Old 06-22-2018, 09:19 AM Thread Starter
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New member - being cheated by GatewayClassicCars

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Originally Posted by Fordguy65 View Post

Gateway is not a dealership. They don't own the cars they sell. They provide marketing and transaction services.

You are right, legally. But on their website and in the showroom however they give the wrong impression to be a dealership, no mention there that they sell on consignment and I‘m sure that is on purpose:



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post #132 of 160 (permalink) Old 06-22-2018, 10:32 AM
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Late to the party on this one but personally if I'm buying any specialty item for what I'm guessing was above average coin I'm going to personally inspect it as well as getting a bonded inspection done. If the seller balks I walk. The term "completely restored" is completely subjective. I worked with a guy that did "complete" restorations on early Mustangs in Oklahoma and sold them to suckers, I mean customers in Pennsylvania via his brother who lived there.


I personally knew him as a shyster so never had any financial dealings with him but stopped by his place one day to look at a convertible he had been working on for sometime. Again he called this one completely restored. Overall it was a decent driver but even from 10 feet away it was obvious that it wasn't even partially restored. He stepped away for a moment so I had a chance to peel back the JC Whitney carpet he had installed in it to inspect the "brand new" "factory" floor stampings he had installed in it. The floor consisted of flat galvanized steel hammered to fit and POP RIVETED, not even welded into place!


He couldn't understand when I asked him if he had a fat insurance policy on his brother for when one of his customers beat him to death. It's unfortunate what happened to the OP but in todays world where integrity and morals have been thrown in the trash chasing the almighty dollar you can no longer trust anybody when money is involved. Short of going thru the long and expensive process of litigation I'd personally make his experience known to as many as possible being wary of opening himself up to a defamation lawsuit and try to make lemonade out of this lemon.
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post #133 of 160 (permalink) Old 06-22-2018, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Redbaron View Post
Finally the car came back from body work and painting! Last 3 weekends took me to finish and put insolation and new carpet in as well as a new tank. Also dash and instrument cluster went in finally after some detail restoration. Now the car is much closer to the ‚completely restored’ conditions that Gateway Classic Cars originally did promise.




That's some damn fine lemonade!!
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post #134 of 160 (permalink) Old 06-28-2018, 02:46 PM
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This is a long thread, I didn’t read very much, but likely this car was sold on consignment, at least that is how many and perhaps most of these vintage dealerships work. So the claim is actually that of some owner and not the dealer, but regardless you should have had the car checked out or had some provisions for returning it if the car was not the same as how it was presented.

However, unless you paid way too much and are upside down by a significant sum with the current value verses what you spent, you should be able to fix these rust issues for an amount that will not leave you too much worse off in the value to investment ratio. The floor is really not bad given how most of these look.

And the longer you own it, if you keep the car in good condition and keep making improvements you’ll likely get to a break even point or maybe you’ll get slightly ahead. Most people are upside down with the value, so don’t let it bother you so much. Crap, it’s got a CJ motor, it’s gotta be a blast to own, so fix it, love it, and have fun. People lie, are you really surprised?

And the claim that this does not happen in Europe is BS, it happens EXACTLY the same way. When you start to make claims like that your credibility is diminished. You didn’t do your homework, you fell in love with a picture and you were mislead, it happens all the time and it happens in Europe and you have the same recourse here as there, at least you do in some parts of Europe, not all because parts of Europe leave you with zero chances of having a path for recourse. Me thinks you protest too much, fix it and move on. You learned a lesson.
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Last edited by 66stangFb; 06-28-2018 at 03:02 PM.
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post #135 of 160 (permalink) Old 06-29-2018, 01:24 AM
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Google the Tuna story about investments or cars.
Some tuna is for eating and some tuna is for selling. They both smell fishy.
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