Seat belt options - Vintage Mustang Forums
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post #1 of 38 (permalink) Old 02-18-2018, 10:58 AM Thread Starter
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Seat belt options

I have used my car for quite some time (17 years) for fun track daze and autocross with (please no lectures) stock lap belts. In my last autocross, I rode in a BMW that was nicely prepared, e.g. won his class - he had 4 points that clipped to his rear seatbelts, threaded up and over the seat through the headrest uprights. He said it really kept him in his seat while autocrossing. For years I have posted autocross videos and a common comment from autocrossers was "if you get yourself harnessed to the seat it will make a huge difference." So I was heading down that route for this season when an opportunity to get back into instructing at trackdays came up giving me some free track time this summer. I'm not quite sure how safe that harness situation would be in a impact, perhaps worse than just lap-belts. Keep in mind, I am relatively conservative on the track, light-footing around 115 and driving maybe 85-90% most of the time - seeking thrills, not kisses from bikinied trophy girls.

I really do not want a roll bar as I use the back seat for kids and I like the old survivor interior. Yes, I could go with 3 points but it doesn't solve my autocross issue. So I was curious if anyone has an interesting solution to this problem. I considered making a harness bar at seat back height to run the belts over that would be anchored from pivoting to the rear belt points but...

Any thoughts?

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post #2 of 38 (permalink) Old 02-18-2018, 11:03 AM
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I have seen people run long 4-point harnesses that Mount to the package tray area behind the back seat and through the strap holes in a racing seat. Seems like a compromise but better than just a lap belt.

Im currently researching adding a 3-point solution to my car. Challenge there is that Id like to use a racing harness style clip-on mount at the top so I can easily remove them for shows and photos and such.

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post #3 of 38 (permalink) Old 02-18-2018, 11:48 AM
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Harness options, 3, 4 pt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dobrostang View Post
...BMW that was nicely prepared, e.g. won his class - he had 4 points that clipped to his rear seatbelts, threaded up and over the seat through the headrest uprights. He said it really kept him in his seat while autocrossing.....I'm not quite sure how safe that harness situation would be in a impact, perhaps worse than just lap-belts. ....not (seeking) kisses from bikinied trophy girls.

I really do not want a roll bar as I use the back seat for kids and I like the old survivor interior. Yes, I could go with 3 points but it doesn't solve my autocross issue. ...curious if anyone has an interesting solution to this problem. I considered making a harness bar at seat back height to run the belts over that would be anchored from pivoting to the rear belt points but...

Any thoughts?
I'm following this thread because I'm pondering similar thoughts, want to upgrade the stock seats and lap belts like @dobrostang.

If it sounds like the primary motivation for you is the 'autocross issue', then isn't there really nothing wrong with what the BMW guy did? If, and that's a big if, the seats are strong, then isn't 4 pt better than lap belts? I'm just asking...

I hear you about no roll bar because you want to keep back seat accessible. Same here. I thought of taking the upholstery off the seat back and welding two threaded upper harness mounts into the seat and bolting thru the vinyl? Sure safety be damned, but short of doing it the right way, roll bar with harness mount cross bar, everything is going to be a compromise, right?

I guess the next question is - who makes the strongest aftermarket seats to do this with (unorthodox, unsafe, unapproved)? Recaro? Sparco? Cobra? Anybody have seat crash destruction experience? I haven't bought sport seats yet...

As for the 'harness bar at seat back height...' idea: I'm guessing you're talking about an inverted 'U', about 2 ft tall with tabs that slip under your stock seat belt anchor bolts? That would really be no better than welding in two harness mounts to the upper frame of your seats, right? They'd take up backseat space, they'd limit seatback reclinability, they'd prob bend fore/aft in a big impact unless you made the 'U' double-wide across both seat backs and added a 3rd point/leg in, say, the center to the front or rear? Just talking here...

I'm really puzzled why you're not seeking kisses from bikini clad trophy girls? Wth...?? If you're not winning you're losing!! JK...
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post #4 of 38 (permalink) Old 02-18-2018, 12:20 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishfreq View Post

If, and that's a big if, the seats are strong, then isn't 4 pt better than lap belts? I'm just asking...

I have E20 BMW Recaros . Hopefully they are strong enough but I'm not crazy about using them in any way they were not designed for.

I hear you about no roll bar because you want to keep back seat accessible. Same here. Sure safety be damned, but short of doing it the right way, roll bar with harness mount cross bar, everything is going to be a compromise, right?

Shawn from SoT posted an interest thought years ago that a roll bar is really only safe - even for the driver - if you have a auto racing helmet or your head cannot reach it in a crash - stuck with me all these years. Otherwise its a skull crusher...


As for the 'harness bar at seat back height...' idea: I'm guessing you're talking about an inverted 'U', about 2 ft tall with tabs that slip under your stock seat belt anchor bolts? That would really be no better than welding in two harness mounts to the upper frame of your seats, right?

First, my seats come forward so I would want a lot more beef than the seat back holding me in the seat. Second, yes, that's the idea but, I would likely fabricate a removable one that comes up from the floor from either a mount under the rear seat or the seat belt bolts. It would have a strap back to the rear seatbelts to anchor it

I'm really puzzled why you're not seeking kisses from bikini clad trophy girls? Wth...?? If you're not winning you're losing!! JK...
Can't afford to keep up with the rich guys who buy first place by outspending us financial mortals, and frankly, I'm not willing to go fender to fender with someone who can afford to repair their car and REALLY wants that kiss ;o)
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post #5 of 38 (permalink) Old 02-18-2018, 08:24 PM
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2pt good 3pt better, it at least throws the upper body to the middle of the car. Used to be said be dont go 4 point without a sub-belt, Now its no 4 point without HANS, they are under $500 these days.

For yourself, you need a great seat anyway so I'd start there.
Anything else needs to conform to something and sometimes a certain track might over-ride any rules your group has so there are usually no half-baked measures. I'd like to design a bolt-in and bolt together harness bar like I have seen in some Porsches, in and out on demand would be the ultimate compromise.
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post #6 of 38 (permalink) Old 02-18-2018, 10:39 PM
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Staying tuned for ideas
1st I won't likely be able to swing a track day but I could pit crew for free rides and maybe a slice of pizza or maybe a "GlenDog"
2nd when you buy your new helmet it might come with HANS device thread inserts ,Mine did
3rd I can picture a pair of bolt in stub end tubes behind the seats maybe bolted to the seatbelt threaded insert and braced and bolted to the back bolt hole of the front seat with something like this clamped across it https://www.summitracing.com/parts/m...4aAuKIEALw_wcB Vs a full blown roll bar

As I recall you where looking at something like these https://www.ebay.com/itm/12187685065...84.m1436.l2648

interesting behind the rear seat roll bar

http://www.trackhq.com/forums/f195/u...-harness-8365/
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Last edited by 2nd 66; 02-19-2018 at 07:33 PM.
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post #7 of 38 (permalink) Old 02-19-2018, 12:16 AM
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^^^^^^Thats the ticket. The bolted connectors are keyed like a puzzle.
Id want the hoop base for our cars all the way onto the torque box though, maybe an inner rocker, the seat belt holes are a bit ambitious I think even on the P-Car.
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post #8 of 38 (permalink) Old 02-19-2018, 09:14 AM
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Last edited by green1965; 03-01-2018 at 09:05 AM. Reason: Deleted link to incorrect seats
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post #9 of 38 (permalink) Old 02-19-2018, 10:11 AM
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I have 93 Mustang GT buckets with 3-point belts and would like to upgrade to a roll bar and possibly better belts. The back seat really isn't usable with upgraded front seats anyway.

1965 1966 1967 1968 1969 1970 Ford Mustang Coupe Track Cage Roll Bar | Mustangs Plus - Buy Mustang Parts Online

I ran a similar type of roll bar in my 1973 Bronco and nobody was ever concerned about hitting your head.
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post #10 of 38 (permalink) Old 02-19-2018, 01:05 PM
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Could you do a 1967 style GT500 roll hoop and a removable cross bar for the seatbelts?

This:
https://www.ebay.com/i/250510420661?chn=ps

And add on a removable cross bar using these:
https://www.appliedracing.com/roll-b...-bar-kits.html
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post #11 of 38 (permalink) Old 02-19-2018, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponyboy View Post
I have 93 Mustang GT buckets with 3-point belts and would like to upgrade to a roll bar and possibly better belts. The back seat really isn't usable with upgraded front seats anyway.

1965 1966 1967 1968 1969 1970 Ford Mustang Coupe Track Cage Roll Bar | Mustangs Plus - Buy Mustang Parts Online

I ran a similar type of roll bar in my 1973 Bronco and nobody was ever concerned about hitting your head.
In my predriving age teen years I was in the back of a Jeep CJ that had an unpadded roll bar over the rear seat .The trail got a little bouncey and my head came in contact with said bar,Think I still have a dent in my skull
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post #12 of 38 (permalink) Old 02-19-2018, 08:36 PM
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One option might be install a steel shear plate behind the rear seat where you could install belt hooks that fold down. These would easily fit behind the seat when installed. For track days, you would remove the rear seat lower and upper (weight savings) and attach your shoulder harness to the hooks. The shear plate is then dual purpose. May or may not pass tech inspection. Just a thought.

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post #13 of 38 (permalink) Old 02-19-2018, 08:54 PM
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post #14 of 38 (permalink) Old 02-19-2018, 09:00 PM
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Seems like a lot of work when the rear seat belt threaded inserts are pretty much right there anyway
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post #15 of 38 (permalink) Old 02-19-2018, 09:05 PM
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True, but no shear plate...
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