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post #16 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-06-2019, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by 2nd 66 View Post
if you cant pass em ,take em out
Hahaha, not his plan I don't think...

Looks like an OH S-H-I-T moment to me!

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post #17 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-10-2019, 02:42 PM Thread Starter
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From the drivers FB group page. After much chidding i think he finally got the point others where ragging him about.
"Good afternoon everyone. I知 closing up shop. I知 stepping away from tracking for a while. I caused a collision and could have hurt someone. I知 not ok with that, and honestly I知 struggling with that. Thank you all for participating in the group. I really enjoyed this. Best of luck to all of you."

I think that means he didn't have track insurance

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post #18 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-10-2019, 04:25 PM
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That's why I tell people not to take DE's lightly. You may not be "racing", but most of the same risks are still there, and people have been killed.
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post #19 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-10-2019, 04:44 PM
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Ugh. While informative, I'm not a fan of crash videos. Most of the groups I run with do not allow videos or pictures of wrecks to be circulated publicly...even though the causing driver (I'm assuming) is the one who posted the video. Not sure why he did, but whatevs.


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post #20 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-11-2019, 03:47 PM
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Been there. Well almost, had at least a foot to spare
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post #21 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-12-2019, 10:52 AM
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All the criticism is somewhat unwarranted; the guy was clearly a reasonably capable driver with a good understanding of the track. I’ve raced VIR in vintage and knowing the curbs and how the track is I can say this guy had as good an understanding of the track and seemingly of his abilities as you’d like to see in a DE. It sounded to me like it all went south when he missed a downshift point and thus concurrently missed the braking and turn in, and maybe even got tangled up in the peddles. He was perhaps quickly fixated on what he didn’t want to hit and thus it became exactly what he did hit.

He seemed to carry too much speed in, there is an odd blip of the throttle without reaching for the shifter, and then he drives towards what he is looking at and most doesn’t want to hit. That’s often what happens, if you don’t want to hit something, look somewhere else, it’s a guiding principle.

This can and will happen when very fast cars are pushed hard by DE drivers; happens to the pro driver as well. Having it to do over again I expect he’d say he should have elected to go straight off and not go with the direction of the track. Going straight would have cost him the chin of the car, but he’d have the rest. He appeared to me to fall apart mentally when the speed didn’t come off as it had in prior laps, the downshift point went past, and he was subsequently caught out without a plan B. Plan B’s come with experience and it’s been my own observation that the DE driver will overdrive the car and not leave enough room for a mistake.

Yes we can say he got in over his head and ran out of talent, was pushing too hard by not leaving room to recover, but this could have just as easily been the Porsche into the Mustang if the track position was reversed. I’ve seen slower cars and drivers have shunts as bad and worse when they get caught out.

If you’ve not found yourself in something similar you probably haven’t pushed a very fast car hard. Sucks for both drivers as neither can ask insurance for help.
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Last edited by 66stangFb; 07-12-2019 at 11:08 AM.
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post #22 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-12-2019, 11:41 AM
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Yeah, I've found myself in something similar (stuck throttle) , but in an SCCA road race, NOT a DE. These cars/drivers don't have full safety gear, IMO people running these events should reign in driving like that. If he hit the driver's door there could have been a fatality. I thought most DE's only allowed passing on straights or on a wave by ?

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post #23 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-12-2019, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by stephen_wilson View Post
I thought most DE's only allowed passing on straights or on a wave by ?

Depends on the group. Usually, Novice & Intermediate have assigned passing sections, Advanced can pass wherever. All require point-bys.


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post #24 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-12-2019, 05:24 PM
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Hahaha, not his plan I don't think... Looks like an OH S-H-I-T moment to me!
Yeah, he came into that left-hander too hot, crested the hill, unloaded the suspension and lost the ability to steer, and continued on a straight straight line through the apex of the right-hander, and right into the Porsche. Bummer!

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post #25 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-12-2019, 06:05 PM Thread Starter
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That was a Chin event, pretty well respected operators that have broader rules than others depending on the track.. In their highest levels they are close to wide open and don't always require a point with open passing but there are expectations of when you should let someone by as well as not crowding or dive bombing into corners, similar to his second pass which I think was an alder Opel, imagine that car getting t-boned. I saw some points given and others i couldn't tell.

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Originally Posted by 66stangFb View Post
All the criticism is somewhat unwarranted; .
The piling on of criticism (which is a lot across 3-4 or more forums) started from the apparent lack of culpability, remorse, empathy or self awareness of his actions when he first posted about it. Actually on the day of the incident by disappearing from the scene post haste. A "sorry, hope you are OK" would have been priceless. He wrote his day was ended by a "black flag" after his car "failed to adequately slow in the braking zone." Then deleted.
Then he posted another video without the crash, then another showing a split screen of the last lap and of another lap, his "fastest of the day" which showed the same terminal speed but braking ~100'+ later than before preceded by traffic and a horrible exit speed from the previous corner. Pile some more for not having an adequate plan for each corner, not easing the brake with a harder turn while still on pavement, then a last steaming pile for steering right while on the grass apparently to make that comeback corner which led straight into another car.
Then the pile on for driving 8-9/10 or 10/10 in a DE then the pile from regulars at VIR that point out that section in particular is to be weary of- long straight, hard braking up a slight hill that then flattens not to mention a "straight off" crosses back onto the track.
Then the pile on for driving so hard IN DE with sub par safety- wet noodle seat mounts, bicycle gloves and a go kart neck pillow showing a certain eagerness to "do it" despite the real risks and consequences involved. Things a capable person wouldn't dismiss.

Was it a brain fart, lazy/slow feet, red mist, chasing a speed before braking or simply doing the exact opposite of the right thing only near the very end as the cause...?

This is just one of those DONT BE THAT GUY scenarios in more ways than one.
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post #26 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-13-2019, 06:06 PM
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I'd be pretty pissed if I was the porsche driver...

The video convinced me that I'll be buying track insurance when I visit new tracks in the future... my home track is very low risk thankfully...

I heard he had insurance, but the porsche did not... but who knows.

We all know it's a risky hobby, and it sucks when things go wrong no matter what the reason.
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post #27 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-13-2019, 07:37 PM
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It sucks worse when you had no hand in it...but like you say it’s a risky hobby. Probably less risky than gambling all your money away.
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