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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-22-2015, 12:08 AM Thread Starter
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wheel hop

So, my car is a '66 coupe with a 347, t5 and a 9" rear. I have global west springs with del-a-lum bushings. Rear shocks are unknown (but stiff) and fronts are Koni. I'm having a problem with wheel hop at the drag strip (street tires). I was under the impression that the global west springs and bushings are supposed to prevent wheel hop. I ran this car with 15" wheels many years ago and never had an issue. As soon as i went to 17's it went down hill. Can old springs cause the wheel hop or am i looking in the wrong direction?
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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-22-2015, 01:04 AM
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I only have a 289 T-5 8" combo with poly bushing 4 leaf mid eyes and KYB's but I use old school slapper bars


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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-22-2015, 08:49 AM
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Better traction with your new tires is probably the cause.. Wheel hop as you probably know is the result of winding up of the leaf springs, due to torque then the sudden release due to loss of traction. There are many ways to fix, from slapper bars, under ride bars or adding additional an spring to the front of the spring pack. Your shocks could be contributing as well as any lowering blocks. etc. Make it a priority to fix though, wheel hop can trash a rear dif or transmission tail shaft in seconds.
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-22-2015, 12:03 PM
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A rear sway bar should stop it as well. Traction bars, sway bar, both, one or the other, your choice.

'67 coupe, 390, 4spd.
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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-22-2015, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nosboss View Post
So, my car is a '66 coupe with a 347, t5 and a 9" rear. I have global west springs with del-a-lum bushings. Rear shocks are unknown (but stiff) and fronts are Koni. I'm having a problem with wheel hop at the drag strip (street tires). I was under the impression that the global west springs and bushings are supposed to prevent wheel hop. I ran this car with 15" wheels many years ago and never had an issue. As soon as i went to 17's it went down hill. Can old springs cause the wheel hop or am i looking in the wrong direction?
Shouldn't do it with GW springs. Do they look like the photo below? (Note the area circled in red)
Stiff shocks in the rear are a no-no..... particularly for drag anyway. Should be something "backwards" in ratio
if they came from GW. (like 30:70 - 30% bump, 70% rebound)

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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-22-2015, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by maladezo View Post
A rear sway bar should stop it as well. Traction bars, sway bar, both, one or the other, your choice.
A sway bar is a selective spring. It increases stiffness/decreases stiffness defending upon body roll.
It will not arrest axle wrap-up.

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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-22-2015, 06:13 PM Thread Starter
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Here is a picture of the front of my springs. They look slightly different than the above springs. These were purchased new in the late 80's, but the car spent many years on jack stands. You can clearly see the blue del-a-lum bushings in the front. The one thing i worry about is them sagging. The look completely flat when the car is at rest. Should they have somewhat of an arch? I have no problem adding a traction bar of some sort, but I'm under the impression it's a band aid with this setup.
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-22-2015, 06:16 PM Thread Starter
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Front spring eye.
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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-22-2015, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GT289 View Post
A sway bar is a selective spring. It increases stiffness/decreases stiffness defending upon body roll.
It will not arrest axle wrap-up.

ex-Global West GM
1991-1995
It prevents wheel hop on my 67. Theoretically it will push down against the axle as it tries to push up to hop. But obviously it is not designed to prevent hop. You may very well know more about this than me. But I do speak from experience.

'67 coupe, 390, 4spd.
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-22-2015, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Nosboss View Post
Front spring eye.
Those are GW springs. They look like the ones from Betts.
Wonder what shocks you have. They should be CureRide if they're from that same time frame. (label
would say "shock exchange" if it were on there and the shock bodies are black in color)

The 65/68's 150# jobs are generally a totally flat arch when the weight is on them. Might possibly be
1/2" worth of arch at the the very most. I doubt even that much. Usually pretty flat....

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1991-1995

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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-23-2015, 01:35 PM Thread Starter
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Shock bodies are black and were installed at the same time. Not sure what decal is on there or if there even is one. I'll take a look tonight.

A friend of mine has some old lakewood slapper bars. I might give them a try. Will they effect my cornering? This is a multi purpose car.
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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-23-2015, 08:38 PM
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Huh. Sounds like CureRide. They're not stiff. Very little resistance to bump (compression) and pretty
significant rebound (in other words, noticeably different between bump and rebound). Photo is some
50176 rear CureRides, fresh from the box (from about 2006 or so)
Slapper bars will definitely arrest spring wrap-up. Handling on the road course would be effected
because as you're trying to exit the corner, the gas is mashed and the slapper is smack up against the
spring, which usually leads to oversteer.
You shouldn't see this extreme on the street because you shouldn't be taking corners at 10/10ths.

But then again you shouldn't be seeing wheel hop either that would require slappers.
Maybe stiffer sidewalls on your 17's are somehow contributing to the issue.
Really doesn't make much sense.

I've got some really old 16" Kumho Victoracers (2005) on my '66 and they are hard as a rock and stiff.
No hop though.


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Last edited by GT289; 12-23-2015 at 08:49 PM.
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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-24-2015, 08:36 AM Thread Starter
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I'm pretty sure my rear shocks have a more rounded top. I'll have to take another look tonight. With as stiff as my rear shocks are, i don't think going softer would help the hop. I may have to just replace the springs thinking they've gone weak over time. I'll give the bars a try first and see how much oversteer they give the car. Road racing is primary over drag, but i can't be braking parts all the time at the strip.
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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-24-2015, 02:01 PM
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You've entered an area I'm not sure about- whether it's the softness or the ratio
that's more important. I really don't know. I do know that "backwards" ratio (as
compared to what the shock manufacturers do) is the hot ticket on the road
course. You can have everything exactly correct in the rear, except for the
shock and it feels like it's miles away from being tuned correctly....

The CureRide top tube curve is unique. Only a Gabriel is close and it's not quite
the same either.....
(I believe all of CR's operations are in-house- tooling is probably their own design)

ex-Global West GM
1991-1995

As the drill sergeant said, "I taught you everything you know. I didn't teach you everything I know."

"Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so."
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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-31-2015, 11:14 AM
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A couple months ago I started a discussion with some questions about wheel hop that my car was having after my '68 FB project was completed - all new suspension, engine, T5, trutrac, etc. Quite a few folks here provided a variety of informative solutions/options.

I haven't addressed yet and will be targeting to resolve before spring arrives. My car isn't built primarily for drag racing and I don't want to sacrifice road handling/cornering so I've eliminated the easy/inexpensive/effective solution of using traction bars (I also want to maintain a relatively comfortable ride and stock looking appearance on the outside). I'm leaning toward adding a half leaf toward the front of my existing setup and see how that performs. Thought you'd be interested in the info. presented on this thread. Various people were kind enough to offer up some detailed info/feedback.


Worth adding that my car has BFG TA 245 15s out back which don't have such a reputation for providing great traction (compared to modern tires), however, I could see how the modern deign/performance/traction rating of the 17s you've added possibly may have been enough to push your springs (which previously didn't exhibit wheelhop) over the edge with their added grip.


http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/vi...-how-stop.html

Last edited by Will-E; 12-31-2015 at 11:23 AM.
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