Global West Suspension Review and Install - Page 3 - Vintage Mustang Forums
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post #31 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-26-2019, 12:21 PM
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The OP is going to end up with a nearly identical set-up to my car.

I’m guessing he’s going to be thrilled with it. It’s comfortable, capable, and bullet-proof.
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post #32 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-26-2019, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Huskinhano View Post
Lowering the upper A arms will make a big difference in handling. The stock location with stock A arms causes positive camber as the suspension compresses. In turns the tire leans the wrong way and looses grip easier. Lowering the A arms with stock A arms wonít fix the positive caster gain completely but goes a long way in fixing it. I know on the 65/66 the stock A arms need to go about 1.75 inches. 67 and later cars the suspension is a little different. The lower arms are longer so that will effect things. But the short answer, yes lower the stock A arms 1Ē. This also raises the front roll center. This is not the center of gravity but rather the point where the suspension causes a imaginary center line for the car to roll on in a turn. Raising it up makes the car inherently more stable and gives the car that go cart feel. Yes this will lower the front by about 1/2Ē. The reason you donít lower more then 1Ē is due to the angle of the ball joint, youíll break it.

Aftermarket arms are going to be slightly shorter for better camber, theyíre stiffer. Theyíll give better road feel. Before aftermarket arms install adjustable struts with rod ends. These will do wonders. Itíll make caster adjustment easier and with the rod ends wonít deflect like the rubber biscuits making braking a lot more stable.
Now I was confused.
So advise instead of using an upper arms +3 Global West, should lower the stock A arms and install adjustable struts with rod ends? Do you think I'm going to get better at driving the car?
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post #33 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-26-2019, 09:51 PM
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Now I was confused.
So advise instead of using an upper arms +3 Global West, should lower the stock A arms and install adjustable struts with rod ends? Do you think I'm going to get better at driving the car?
The GW+3 is a better set up. Iím giving you other options that will still provide very good results for a lot less money. You have options. Another way to gain caster on your car is to put a 1/8Ē washer or shim on the front stud of each upper A arm between the A arm shaft and body.

Another option for aftermarket control arms are from Street or Track. These use rod ends that you can adjust for additional caster. They comefully assembled with 3* of caster adjusted in them.
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post #34 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-26-2019, 11:43 PM
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It’s somewhat interesting to learn about the paint/powder coat quality and installation complexity but the reason you spend all that cash is to improve handling. Frankly, I’d rather know if the investment was worth it. Waiting a few years won’t tell anyone much. And I think anyone spending that much money on GW is already too biased to be objective (sorry). Has anyone ever seen an independent review and comparison to stock (including other aftermarket vendors besides GW) that details the best value and performance gain? Not saying I don’t believe that aftermarket handling parts won’t help but what’s necessary and the best value?
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post #35 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-27-2019, 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Palo Alto Car Guy View Post
Itís somewhat interesting to learn about the paint/powder coat quality and installation complexity but the reason you spend all that cash is to improve handling. Frankly, Iíd rather know if the investment was worth it. Waiting a few years wonít tell anyone much. And I think anyone spending that much money on GW is already too biased to be objective (sorry). Has anyone ever seen an independent review and comparison to stock (including other aftermarket vendors besides GW) that details the best value and performance gain? Not saying I donít believe that aftermarket handling parts wonít help but whatís necessary and the best value?
People are sharing their experiences. Believe what you want.
Here are my experiences. The original geometry induces under steer.
The minimum fix is the Shelby drop. From there you can install adjustable strut rods and roller spring perches. Stiffer springs sway bars, shocks...
Geometry corrected tubular a arms can be an improvement since it allows more of a upper arm drop than the Shelby mod. This allows for more camber gain. The GW +3 or the SoT arms allow for more caster.
You can get good improvements with several manufacturers.
GW, SoT, Opentracker, hotchkis, all offer improvements.
I have mostly GW stuff. But itís not the only path to nirvana.
Shocks matter more than many realize....
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372 Cleveland, 4 speed, 9" T.50 Trac Lock axle, Toploader, Global west suspension, Big Lincoln Trans Am Brakes front, Eldorado caliper/ MK VII disk rear.
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post #36 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-29-2019, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Jsams View Post
People are sharing their experiences. Believe what you want.
Here are my experiences. The original geometry induces under steer.
The minimum fix is the Shelby drop. From there you can install adjustable strut rods and roller spring perches. Stiffer springs sway bars, shocks...
Geometry corrected tubular a arms can be an improvement since it allows more of a upper arm drop than the Shelby mod. This allows for more camber gain. The GW +3 or the SoT arms allow for more caster.
You can get good improvements with several manufacturers.
GW, SoT, Opentracker, hotchkis, all offer improvements.
I have mostly GW stuff. But itís not the only path to nirvana.
Shocks matter more than many realize....

Yes indeed Jsams, you've got a sound approach there, but I'm wondering if 'more of an upper arm drop' is beneficial on the '67 or '68 that each year got longer lower control arms? I don't hear many talking about 'best max Shelby drop' for the respective years? I just did the 25mm with the template that came with my GW +3 UCA's on my '68, hoping that's sufficient?

So lets talk about shocks too - you're right, they matter a lot. I want to get rid of my KYB's without even having tried them based on what the guys here say about how crummy valved they are. I'd like as 'sophisticated' a shock as I can get, meaning, monotube, speed sensitive valving and a graph curve that's digressive. Adjustable compression and rebound damping would be cool if not too crazy $$, but I don't see this much on non-coil overs? If I can't get that with a non-coil over, then I'll consider swapping UCA's and going coil over? I know the cost goes thru the roof here so I'd like to NOT do that if at all possible.

Already have all aftermarket PTPE LCA's, strut rods, etc. Any shock enthusiasts on here?
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post #37 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-29-2019, 02:11 PM
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What ever drop GW Tells you to do is likely optimal for their arms.
If you are running the GW arms with the proper drop, IME that is the single biggest gain from one thing.
From my experience, the old mustangs like soft bump and stiff rebound.
The Bilsteins are the “cheapest” good shock. I like their sport version.
Viking makes reasonably priced double adjustable shocks that opentracker sells.
Hotchkis sells some trick Fox shocks that are pricey.
And if you have unlimited money you can get Penske shocks that Cobra Automotive sells.
For spirited street driving, I would go with the bilsteins. Better shocks are likely to cost way more.
Like several of us here, I don’t have a single rubber bushing in the suspension. While I’m not sure roller spring perches and strut rods make the car faster, it “feels” more supple and responsive.
In order of importance (with what I have personally done) I would rank mods in this order:
Shelby drop/tubular arms
Springs/sway bar/ shocks
Biggest sticky tires you can run
Strut rod
Spring perch
Rear springs with del alum bushings
Tubular lower arm with spherical bearing

1969 coupe
372 Cleveland, 4 speed, 9" T.50 Trac Lock axle, Toploader, Global west suspension, Big Lincoln Trans Am Brakes front, Eldorado caliper/ MK VII disk rear.

Last edited by Jsams; 06-29-2019 at 02:26 PM.
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post #38 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-29-2019, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Jsams View Post
What ever drop GW Tells you to do is likely optimal for their arms.
If you are running the GW arms with the proper drop, IME that is the single biggest gain from one thing.
From my experience, the old mustangs like soft bump and stiff rebound.
The Bilsteins are the “cheapest” good shock. I like their sport version.
Viking makes reasonably priced double adjustable shocks that opentracker sells.
Hotchkis sells some trick Fox shocks that are pricey.
And if you have unlimited money you can get Penske shocks that Cobra Automotive sells.
For spirited street driving, I would go with the bilsteins. Better shocks are likely to cost way more.
Like several of us here, I don’t have a single rubber bushing in the suspension. While I’m not sure roller spring perches and strut rods make the car faster, it “feels” more supple and responsive.
In order of importance (with what I have personally done) I would rank mods in this order:
Shelby drop/tubular arms
Springs/sway bar/ shocks
Biggest sticky tires you can run
Strut rod
Spring perch
Rear springs with del alum bushings
Tubular lower arm with spherical bearing
OMG Jsams, I had NO idea there was an 'off the shelf' Fox shock available for our classic mustangs!! Thank you SO much for enlightening me, because as a SF Bay Area motocross and mountain bike guy I've still got a 'connection' to the Fox suspension that's been making everything bounce better since I was a kid mx racer!!

You NAILED my needs to a 'T'; monotube DIGRESSIVE valving! That means it can be firm cornering (slow piston speeds) but if you hit a sharp bump (faster piston speed), the shock valving 'knows' and softens up. It's the best of both worlds. Who's tried these, guys?? Somebody review these please...

Single adjustable valving from soft street to stiff race? Not clear if that single adjustment is rebound or compression or a little of BOTH? But I've got faith it's a damn good 'made in USA' product. All that for only $180 per shock? That's not pricey that's a bargain. Why isn't EVERYONE running those? In the past the Fox Shox company has been the kinda place you could bring your shock back to, and for a small fee they'd rebuild and/or revalve the shock to your liking if your needs didn't meet the range of production.

Pics attached below, dang link didn't work.

The only thing better, in my vivid imagination, would have been to have the shock body flipped upside-down, removing it's weight from the moving (unsprung) part of the suspension, and a reservoir, on a ss hose, at the top that can expand the oil/nitrogen capacity for even greater performance and valving adjustability. The only ones close would be $1,500 JRI, Penske, etc.

I'm all roller everything too. Roller spring perches etc., so this is my missing link. Wish they had heim instead of poly bushings but maybe that's ok... Thanks. Love to hear of ANYONE trying these?

67-70 Mustang Hotchkis Tuned 1.5 Adjustable Performance Series Front Shocks
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Screen Shot 2019-06-29 at 1.37.57 PM.jpg (63.9 KB, 8 views)
File Type: jpg Screen Shot 2019-06-29 at 1.37.47 PM.jpg (99.6 KB, 8 views)

Last edited by Fishfreq; 06-29-2019 at 04:51 PM. Reason: picture didn't show up?
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post #39 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-29-2019, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Palo Alto Car Guy View Post
Itís somewhat interesting to learn about the paint/powder coat quality and installation complexity but the reason you spend all that cash is to improve handling. Frankly, Iíd rather know if the investment was worth it. Waiting a few years wonít tell anyone much. And I think anyone spending that much money on GW is already too biased to be objective (sorry). Has anyone ever seen an independent review and comparison to stock (including other aftermarket vendors besides GW) that details the best value and performance gain? Not saying I donít believe that aftermarket handling parts wonít help but whatís necessary and the best value?
I got no dog in the fight. I no longer work there. Their stuff works. If you follow their "prescription" the car will pull a g.
My '66 would do that back in the 90's when I made the upgrade to the then new 16" rims and R-1 tires. Today's setups
will do more lateral, with less exotic rubber.
Back in the day I ran 1-2 seconds faster than the GT-350s up at Willow Springs. Most of those guys had me by 50 hp
or more..... but it's about high average lap speeds (not having to slow down for every corner), who cares how fast you
can drag race between turns.
There are no comparisons to be read that I know of that involve the vintage Mustangs. Plenty has been written on Fox
upgrades though. I was involved in some of that testing back in the day.

The vintage Mustang is a bunch of compromises in the suspension department. As you get rid of the major shortcomings,
the car improves. In my OPINION, the stock upper arms are complete crap and the root of the problem. Even "half assing"
those by dropping them down 1" is worlds better than stock. Upper arms, springs and shocks..... upgraded the correct way
are the underpinnings of what you need to see major handling gains. And without the right tires, you're just wasting your
time.

ex-Global West GM
1991-1995
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File Type: jpg wh-DSC_0687x_zpsacc4b3d7.jpg (85.9 KB, 10 views)
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post #40 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-29-2019, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Jsams View Post
From my experience, the old mustangs like soft bump and stiff rebound.
Yup. You said a lot there. Particularly true in the rear.

ex-Global West GM
1991-1995
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post #41 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-29-2019, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by GT289 View Post
Yup. You said a lot there. Particularly true in the rear.

ex-Global West GM
1991-1995
You told me that years ago. And damn if it wasnít true...
I donít personally know anyone running the Hotchkis stuff.
Richard Trujillo on the west coast runs their stuff with good success.
Their arms look pretty much like the GW arms but cost more.

1969 coupe
372 Cleveland, 4 speed, 9" T.50 Trac Lock axle, Toploader, Global west suspension, Big Lincoln Trans Am Brakes front, Eldorado caliper/ MK VII disk rear.

Last edited by Jsams; 06-29-2019 at 05:24 PM.
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post #42 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-29-2019, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Jsams View Post
...From my experience, the old mustangs like soft bump and stiff rebound.
The Bilsteins are the “cheapest” good shock. I like their sport version.
Viking makes reasonably priced double adjustable shocks that opentracker sells.
Hotchkis sells some trick Fox shocks that are pricey.
And if you have unlimited money you can get Penske shocks that Cobra Automotive sells.
For spirited street driving, I would go with the bilsteins. Better shocks are likely to cost way more....
Did a little homework on Viking. They're a rogue spinoff of QA1, from what I can tell. They LOOK fantastic. My biggest hesitation with their twin-tube design, you have a real small piston inside a small inner chamber. I've yet to find a twin-tube shock that provides anything near digressive valving. With gas mixed in the oil you also have aeration or bubbles in the oil, fading, to deal with. From things I've heard there were some growing pains there, maybe they've sorted out production and design problems by now, I don't know...

Bilsteins ARE a great monotube shock design. Whenever I've bought a 'sport' valved Bilstein, I've always wished they were a little stiffer. That's where the Fox adjustable digressive monotube comes in and could be the answer? We spend SO much $$ on all these suspension parts, why sell ourselves short with low price shocks?
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post #43 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-29-2019, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jsams View Post
From my experience, the old mustangs like soft bump and stiff rebound.

You (GT289) told me that years ago. And damn if it wasnít true...
I donít personally know anyone running the Hotchkis stuff.
Richard Trujillo on the west coast runs their stuff with good success.
Their arms look pretty much like the GW arms but cost more.
The adjustments for the Hotchkis Fox shocks are 28 clicks of rebound only. Lol, I'da seen that if I just looked closer at the pic I posted. So that's a plus right?

The Hotchkis 'light weight' hollow fr sway bar looks nice, but they don't sell it individually, just a fr/r kit for big $$. There's no point running their other stuff if GW are less.
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post #44 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-29-2019, 06:57 PM
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Did a little homework on Viking. They're a rogue spinoff of QA1, from what I can tell. They LOOK fantastic. My biggest hesitation with their twin-tube design, you have a real small piston inside a small inner chamber. I've yet to find a twin-tube shock that provides anything near digressive valving. With gas mixed in the oil you also have aeration or bubbles in the oil, fading, to deal with. From things I've heard there were some growing pains there, maybe they've sorted out production and design problems by now, I don't know...

Bilsteins ARE a great monotube shock design. Whenever I've bought a 'sport' valved Bilstein, I've always wished they were a little stiffer. That's where the Fox adjustable digressive monotube comes in and could be the answer? We spend SO much $$ on all these suspension parts, why sell ourselves short with low price shocks?
I have Vikings on my '48 F-1. Big difference.
Without getting into gory detail, basically Viking was started by ex-QA1 guys who didn't like certain business
practices that went on at QA1. I was told it was one of the engineers and a couple of other staff that defected.
I do not recall where I got that story, but I generally don't repeat stuff that isn't pretty close to reality.

ex-Global West GM
1991-1995
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post #45 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-29-2019, 08:43 PM
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Where did you get that anti roll bar for your truck. I like that!
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