Binding steering - Vintage Mustang Forums
 1Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-02-2017, 03:27 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 51
Binding steering

Still messing with my car after doing the Shelby drop and lowering springs (dropped it 2.5"). I played around with caster, camber, and toe on it just enough to get it to the alignment shop. Got 1/8th-ish toe in set and gave it some positive caster (don't have the gauges, so I'm not sure where it's at... About an additional 1/4 inch of the are now exposed on the strut rod adjustment). I now have a pretty severe binding in the steering (I'm guessing ball joints maybe?). I have done the EPAS mod, and even with assist, it doesn't want to turn while parked. It binds and makes some pops and grinding noises. Used to turn like butter when parked. Have I got an alignment setting so out of whack that it's binding on itself, or did something else coincidentally let go (steering box maybe?)

What should I look for or attempt to correct the binding? Will I need a ball joint spacer or a negative wedge kit?

Last edited by ldorris; 05-02-2017 at 03:51 AM.
ldorris is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-02-2017, 06:39 AM
Senior Member
 
22GT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Southeastern Pennsylvania
Posts: 33,799
Quote:
Originally Posted by ldorris View Post
Still messing with my car after doing the Shelby drop and lowering springs (dropped it 2.5"). I played around with caster, camber, and toe on it just enough to get it to the alignment shop. Got 1/8th-ish toe in set and gave it some positive caster (don't have the gauges, so I'm not sure where it's at...
Sounds like too much toe, and too much drop.

Amateur restorer. Well, sometimes I have been paid for it. But not right now.
22GT is offline  
post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-02-2017, 07:59 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Tunkhannock PA
Posts: 19,785
TvIf you've adjusted the struts for more caster you should have less threads shown. You've lengthened the strut increasing negative caster. The same characteristics with positive caster that wants to keep the car straight are doing the same here except it has more leverage to not want to turn. More then likely you have everything in a bind.

When you have zero caster the imaginary line that runs through the upper and lower ball joints also goes through the contact patch of the tire. When you have either positive or negative caster the imaginary line through the ball joints now has changed to a new location on the tire up off the ground and a few inches on the circumstance of the tire. Now as you turn the tires, the caster has to climb or rotate on the tire to meet the new centerline. You're actually lifting the weighted of the car when you turn. That's what keeps the car straight. A good way of looking at it is when you're sitting on a bicycle not moving with the front tire straight. What happens when you turn the tires either way? The head of the bicycle raises up. As you increase the weight over the front, the harder it is to turn and the tire stays straight. You have this with effect with the negative camber as well
2nd 66 likes this.

Tom

One thing great about getting older. A life in prison sentence is less of a deterrence


Last edited by Huskinhano; 05-02-2017 at 08:11 AM.
Huskinhano is online now  
 
post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-02-2017, 02:59 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 51
So too much caster, too much toe? I'm sure I'm not the first guy to lower a 67 Mustang 2.5", and I have the car sitting the way I like, so the drop will remain. You guys don't think I need the negative wedge kit?
ldorris is offline  
post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-02-2017, 04:55 PM
Senior Member
 
CHOCK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Illinois
Posts: 3,290
I believe folks use the original steering box with this EPAS?

If so, I assume you did rebuild the box. If not, the bearings might not be at their best smooth, rolling aspect.

Yes, these boxes will bind HORRIBLY is they spit bearing balls, or balls in the worm/sector.
CHOCK is offline  
post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-02-2017, 05:32 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 51
I did not rebuild the box when I did the EPAS mod. Plan is to buy a new quick ratio unit down the road (I guess I like doing everything twice, lol). Was hoping factory box would make it a year or two.
ldorris is offline  
post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-02-2017, 05:36 PM
Senior Member
 
gt350sr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Eastern Iowa
Posts: 5,587
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by ldorris View Post
I did not rebuild the box when I did the EPAS mod. Plan is to buy a new quick ratio unit down the road (I guess I like doing everything twice, lol). Was hoping factory box would make it a year or two.
Looks like you just FF'd down the road....

Working on old cars teaches us patience... and every curse word imaginable!
gt350sr is offline  
post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-03-2017, 01:14 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 51
Now the steering is in such a bind that I can't even move the wheels by hand (steer them) when the car is in the air on jacks (I can force it with the steering wheel, but it makes terrible grinding noises and is very difficult). There is also a ton of slop in the steering wheel.
This all began when I started to monkey with the caster and toe settings. I returned the settings to as close as possible to the previous settings. I doubt my issues are due to a part failure, as again, this all started when I changed alignment settings. I also haven't driven the car since I began messing with all this.
Any ideas?!
ldorris is offline  
post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-03-2017, 01:20 PM
Senior Member
 
2nd 66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: New York
Posts: 9,558
Garage
I'm with Huskinhano on this Check you caster setting


Brad
2nd 66 is offline  
post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-03-2017, 01:29 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Sandy, Utah
Posts: 7,924
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd 66 View Post
I'm with Huskinhano on this Check you caster setting
This, you've pushed the caster in the "wrong" direction. You want to pull the *BOTTOM* of the tire towards the *FRONT* of the car. If you have *more* threads showing on the strut rods you moved the bottom of the tire towards the back of the car. This will screw up your steering substantially. Fix that and it is at least likely the problem goes away.

5R08A, "298"(+.060, 6,000+ rpm), Dual Ex, T-10, FITech FI, Crane XR-i Ignition, Front Discs, Heim Jointed Struts, Spherical Bearing LCAs, Roller Perches, Arning Drop, 1" & 3/4" Anti-Sway Bars, Export & Monte Carlo, and GW Subframes.
Victory Red, Hood Scoop, Eagle 192 Wheels, Power Antenna, Factory Style Luggage Rack, Glass Rear Window, White Int. w/ Black trim, Right & *Left* Turn Indicators, Rally Pac Style Voltmeter & Tachometer, Cruise Control.
JSHarvey is offline  
post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-03-2017, 02:33 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 51
Put a stethoscope on the steering box and heard some terrible noises. Perhaps my steering box let go coincidentally during all this, making my steering difficult...
ldorris is offline  
post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-03-2017, 03:03 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Sandy, Utah
Posts: 7,924
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by ldorris View Post
Put a stethoscope on the steering box and heard some terrible noises. Perhaps my steering box let go coincidentally during all this, making my steering difficult...
Or the binding caused by the backwards caster broke the steering box because of the additional stress/force it induced. I'm not trying to be a jerk here, just trying to make the point that you've got a setting wrong and it will cause problems. Replacing the steering box would be a short term fix, the excessive force would still be there and it would cause problems in the future.

5R08A, "298"(+.060, 6,000+ rpm), Dual Ex, T-10, FITech FI, Crane XR-i Ignition, Front Discs, Heim Jointed Struts, Spherical Bearing LCAs, Roller Perches, Arning Drop, 1" & 3/4" Anti-Sway Bars, Export & Monte Carlo, and GW Subframes.
Victory Red, Hood Scoop, Eagle 192 Wheels, Power Antenna, Factory Style Luggage Rack, Glass Rear Window, White Int. w/ Black trim, Right & *Left* Turn Indicators, Rally Pac Style Voltmeter & Tachometer, Cruise Control.
JSHarvey is offline  
post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-03-2017, 05:51 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSHarvey View Post
Or the binding caused by the backwards caster broke the steering box because of the additional stress/force it induced. I'm not trying to be a jerk here, just trying to make the point that you've got a setting wrong and it will cause problems. Replacing the steering box would be a short term fix, the excessive force would still be there and it would cause problems in the future.
Thanks for the caster clarification. I have the strut rods as short as possible. As I understand, this will give me more positive caster. Am I incorrect?

And this could snap my steering box even though I didn't drive it? I did put the weight on the car and the steering wheel, but it never left the garage.

Oh the settings will absolutely be adjusted to proper settings. Remember... This all started as I attempted to get it close enough to limp it to the alignment shop.

Last edited by ldorris; 05-03-2017 at 06:14 PM.
ldorris is offline  
post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-03-2017, 06:50 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Sandy, Utah
Posts: 7,924
Garage
I don't know. I assumed you cycled through (or attempted to cycle through) the range of movement on the steering. If that caused a bind to where it wouldn't move then you are putting more stress/force on the system than it got while moving before.

follow-up question, so when you exposed more threads on the strut rod was this in front of, or behind, the bracket the bushings surround? I may have the causality of movement mixed up here. Did you pull the bottom of the tires towards or away from the front of the car?

5R08A, "298"(+.060, 6,000+ rpm), Dual Ex, T-10, FITech FI, Crane XR-i Ignition, Front Discs, Heim Jointed Struts, Spherical Bearing LCAs, Roller Perches, Arning Drop, 1" & 3/4" Anti-Sway Bars, Export & Monte Carlo, and GW Subframes.
Victory Red, Hood Scoop, Eagle 192 Wheels, Power Antenna, Factory Style Luggage Rack, Glass Rear Window, White Int. w/ Black trim, Right & *Left* Turn Indicators, Rally Pac Style Voltmeter & Tachometer, Cruise Control.
JSHarvey is offline  
post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-03-2017, 06:56 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSHarvey View Post
I don't know. I assumed you cycled through (or attempted to cycle through) the range of movement on the steering. If that caused a bind to where it wouldn't move then you are putting more stress/force on the system than it got while moving before.

follow-up question, so when you exposed more threads on the strut rod was this in front of, or behind, the bracket the bushings surround? I may have the causality of movement mixed up here. Did you pull the bottom of the tires towards or away from the front of the car?
Yes sir... I did cycle through range of movement (and, at times, put a little force into pushing it beyond a bind).

I exposed more threads behind the bracket, less threads on the front of the bracket where the bushing resides. I should have been more clear when describing this. I watched the tire to try and see if it where moving toward the front or rear of the vehicle. Honestly, I couldn't see much difference from my adjustments.
ldorris is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Vintage Mustang Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome