1967 Frame Dimension Question - Vintage Mustang Forums
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post #1 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-28-2017, 07:52 AM Thread Starter
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1967 Frame Dimension Question

All,

I have been trying to get this question answered for a couple of weeks. Can someone please confirm that the 1967 Shop Manual dimensions are good? Specifically the rear most dimensions from the center of the shackle mount down 15.57".

I am able to get points A, B/C, and D to all line up with my laser but point E is low by 11/32". If I set the car to D and and E then point A is low by 11/32". This is throwing me.

Please, anyone confirm the numbers are good? The back of the car is clean with no damage.

Slows
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post #2 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-28-2017, 09:01 AM
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That dimension is correct.

Can you post pics from side and rear views as it sits now? Not that anyone will be able to spot an issue with them, but it may help the experienced here to see what's there and what's not. What is the best way to proceed advice is called for now.
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post #3 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-28-2017, 09:08 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4ocious View Post
That dimension is correct.

Can you post pics from side and rear views as it sits now? Not that anyone will be able to spot an issue with them, but it may help the experienced here to see what's there and what's not. What is the best way to proceed advice is called for now.
The car is up on a jig now. I can redue the jig if need be.

I will take some pictures tonight. Just looking for what the back and side of the car looks like? No frame pictures?
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post #4 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-28-2017, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by lowlyslows View Post
The car is up on a jig now. I can redue the jig if need be.

I will take some pictures tonight. Just looking for what the back and side of the car looks like? No frame pictures?
The more the better.
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post #5 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-28-2017, 10:40 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 4ocious View Post
The more the better.

Will do,

This is driving me NUTS. What if the repo frame rails I installed have the gear box, idler arm, and bumper holes in the wrong spot. All 6 points line up with the laser level so not sure if that is possible or not...
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post #6 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-28-2017, 11:32 AM
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I didn't have to mess with the back of my car when I was building my frame jig, but I do remember the guy at the body shop who checked my car's frame said the rear left dimension was 1/8" low and told me not to worry about it. He said old cars aren't as tightly toleranced as new ones, and I'd spend more time chasing the eighth inch error than it was worth. Which was nice to hear, especially considering how much work had to be done up front.
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post #7 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-28-2017, 12:20 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agb_abq View Post
I didn't have to mess with the back of my car when I was building my frame jig, but I do remember the guy at the body shop who checked my car's frame said the rear left dimension was 1/8" low and told me not to worry about it. He said old cars aren't as tightly toleranced as new ones, and I'd spend more time chasing the eighth inch error than it was worth. Which was nice to hear, especially considering how much work had to be done up front.
Yea I have heard the same thing. However, I am worried that if my front is off I won't know until it's too late and then I will have to redue all this work again. If I was that close (1/8") I wouldn't care but 11/32" is big space to be off by.
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post #8 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-29-2017, 08:15 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 4ocious View Post
The more the better.
4ocious,

So I took a bunch on photos and two videos I uploaded to youtube.

https://youtu.be/Idi6BVPGoJc

https://youtu.be/A8Pwh3QXvrw
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post #9 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-29-2017, 08:18 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 4ocious View Post
The more the better.

Some more photos
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post #10 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-29-2017, 08:55 AM
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Is the front door gap to rear of fender the same way on both sides? I don't like how it gets larger from the bottom up.
Do you have a cowl section you can put on there to check gaps with it in relation to the hood and cowl section and fender?

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post #11 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-29-2017, 09:11 AM Thread Starter
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Is the front door gap to rear of fender the same way on both sides? I don't like how it gets larger from the bottom up.
Do you have a cowl section you can put on there to check gaps with it in relation to the hood and cowl section and fender?
I haven't hung the passenger door yet. Considering that both sides of the car line up with the laser level, I would assess that yes it will look the same.

I can lay the cowling in place tonight and check. I don't have a hood unfortunately.
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post #12 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-29-2017, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowlyslows View Post
I am able to get points A, B/C, and D to all line up with my laser but point E is low by 11/32". If I set the car to D and and E then point A is low by 11/32". The back of the car is clean with no damage.

Good pics you took there.

That car has buckled a bit. Perhaps not supported well enough at some point of work progress. From the gaps it appears the cowl removal could have been a cause, but also aft of or at the rear torque box area is possible. Maybe both. The rear sub frame rails look from the pics spotty with corrosion as well, not good or as you said "clean with no damage".

Were that my car I would take it to a pro shop for straightening and an eye towards repair or even possible replacement of the rear rails, whichever is indicated and advisable.

This is only my opinion and I AM NOT AN EXPERT. There are others here I could name who have far more experience with this sort of condition than I do. I hope they speak up and provide their opinions and options for you. There may be a good home garage remedy (read, less expensive) but sometimes it's best for the patient to go to a doctor. I sincerely hope I am wrong and there is a viable workaround for you. I'm just not seeing it myself, particular as I am to frame dimension accuracy. It would just bug hell out of me down the road knowing it wasn't quite right.
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post #13 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-29-2017, 05:12 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4ocious View Post
Good pics you took there.

That car has buckled a bit. Perhaps not supported well enough at some point of work progress. From the gaps it appears the cowl removal could have been a cause, but also aft of or at the rear torque box area is possible. Maybe both. The rear sub frame rails look from the pics spotty with corrosion as well, not good or as you said "clean with no damage".

Were that my car I would take it to a pro shop for straightening and an eye towards repair or even possible replacement of the rear rails, whichever is indicated and advisable.

This is only my opinion and I AM NOT AN EXPERT. There are others here I could name who have far more experience with this sort of condition than I do. I hope they speak up and provide their opinions and options for you. There may be a good home garage remedy (read, less expensive) but sometimes it's best for the patient to go to a doctor. I sincerely hope I am wrong and there is a viable workaround for you. I'm just not seeing it myself, particular as I am to frame dimension accuracy. It would just bug hell out of me down the road knowing it wasn't quite right.
Where is the buckle or what photo do you see it in? Everything is equal side to side.. I am not opposed to fixing the front, that is not out of my abilities. I agree that the dimension would bug me as well. There has to be some checks that I can do to ensure a "buckle" is not the case and just improper installment in the front. When the car was complete the back end sat symmetrical.

The rear frame rails have surface corrosion and a ton of undercoating chipping off. I will get a better look once I clean them up. I can also replace if need be and that is the point of the jig.

I appreciate your opinion but I would like to confirm with the photo(s) showing that the car has "buckled" from the firewall back (if I am reading your response correctly). I do hope more people with more experience do chime in as well. I have been trying to get responses for weeks on other threads with no luck. Taking the car to a shop is the last option as I want to continue this project on my own.

There are more measurements that I can take to ensure the car is correct firewall back. Maybe I should purchase a Tram Gauge. I will be at the Carlisle this weekend for a Mustang show. Might get some points there
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post #14 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-29-2017, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by lowlyslows View Post
I am able to get points A, B/C, and D to all line up with my laser but point E is low by 11/32". If I set the car to D and and E then point A is low by 11/32".
Sagged might have been a better description. I saw the widening gaps and reread this^^^^.
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post #15 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-29-2017, 07:19 PM Thread Starter
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Sagged might have been a better description. I saw the widening gaps and reread this^^^^.

This is based off the front of the car only right? Back of the car visually looks fine.

Looking at the top down or plan view of the Ford Service Manual there are a bunch of measurements. As long as these are correct on paper and I can match the back of the car to them then there is really no reason that I should not trust the firewall back of the car and can set the baseline/datum line to Point D and E.... Right??

Again, maybe purchasing a Tram Gauge is the best option right now unless I am missing something. The Ford Service Manual should confirm that the frame is good to go for the back of the car, I can then build on that.. I hope.

I found this on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Telescoping-A.../dp/B0049GBASW
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