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-   -   Does a 351 W fit in my 64 1/2 Mustang? (https://forums.vintage-mustang.com/vintage-mustang-forum/1094785-does-351-w-fit-my-64-1-2-mustang.html)

arbys 11-12-2017 04:10 PM

Does a 351 W fit in my 64 1/2 Mustang?
 
I was just running something my head the last few days and they classify the 260-289 as a Windsor engine and that got me to thinking if a 351 W would fit in a first generation Mustang without major modifications?

awhtx 11-12-2017 04:28 PM

It will fit but there will be less space between the head and the shock tower than there is with a 289/302. And that isn't very much!

69GT350H 11-12-2017 04:31 PM

The 351w block's deck height is 1" taller than the 302. This means it is a little wider and taller. I am sure there are others here that have used a 351w in the early Mustang and they can tell you a lot more about what needs to be considered, like exhaust, transmissions, etc.

2nd 66 11-12-2017 04:33 PM

@dobrostang has a 351w in his 66 a 64.5 has basically the same engine bay

macstang 11-12-2017 04:35 PM


These will probably help. Chris Alston chassis works adjustable engine mounts.
https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=...4_PRKR.jpg&f=1

dennis111 11-12-2017 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 69GT350H (Post 9442689)
The 351w block's deck height is 1" taller than the 302. This means it is a little wider and taller.

Sooooooo true.

Having had a 351w in a 65' since 1980 I can tell you that it will certainly fit BUT the biggest headache will always be the exhaust (headers or manifolds.) This is because of the proximity of the shock towers to the wider motor. There are some swap headers available but their fit is, at best, iffy. Standard 289 manifolds will fit between the towers, just barely, and will make contact with them at times unless the shock towers are "clearanced." These manifolds are small and not worthy to use on the bigger Windsor.

Other than that, standard 289 stuff can be used (tranny, bellhousings, timing covers, water pump, balancers, pulleys, valve covers, motor mounts and hoses come to mind.) You will also need to improve the cooling as the 289 radiator is not up to snuff for a 351w.

Unless you are going to add some HP improvements to the 351w (aluminum heads come to mind), the smaller 289/302's make more sense as they are lighter and will rev faster than the bigger windsor.

macstang 11-12-2017 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dennis111 (Post 9442753)
Sooooooo true.

Having had a 351w in a 65' since 1980 I can tell you that it will certainly fit BUT the biggest headache will always be the exhaust (headers or manifolds.) This is because of the proximity of the shock towers to the wider motor. There are some swap headers available but their fit is, at best, iffy. Standard 289 manifolds will fit between the towers, just barely.

That red coupe rearing up is like a 351W +++++, LOL. Did you ever try block huggers? Have you ever dyno'd your car? My drag math says you are making 728 at the wheels give or take a couple.

dennis111 11-12-2017 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by macstang (Post 9442777)
That red coupe rearing up is like a 351W +++++, LOL. Did you ever try block huggers? Have you ever dyno'd your car? My drag math says you are making 728 at the wheels give or take a couple.

Never tried block huggers but I doubt if they would work. There is very little out there exhaust wise for a 65/66. The best fitting headers I used were Accufabs (and not cheap.) They required some work too.

The parts were spec'ed by Duane Busch and his educated guesstimate was at least 720HP. I have never had it dyno'ed but your HP figures are darn close

rickgto 11-12-2017 05:55 PM

Have done several 351w's in 65-6 Mustangs. Pretty much a bolt in. Hedman swap (full length, don't remember the part # off the top of my head) ) headers are also a no fuss bolt in. Only real issues are choice of intake as in intake height affecting air cleaner size for hood clearance, and a few of the plugs are a pita to change. Otherwise all stock motor mounts/etc work just fine with no issues. C4 (case fill) and either 3 or 4 speed toploaders also are no issue with the Hedman headers as long as you use the small 157 bell/flywheel or flex. Cooling it is an issue all by itself. If you opt for stock size V8 radiator, DEFINITELY spend the money for a good radiator, ECP, Fluidyne, with shroud if planning on stock type fan. Ebay rads won't cut it. I'm sure some will get mad at me for saying this but doing a 351w swap, I normally use a 67 390 radiator. Some core support trimming is needed to open it up for full airflow but once rad is mounted, it appears factory stock to 90% of the car show gazers. You do need to change water pump to L69-later drivers side inlet as well as timing tab but again, all factory parts. Only those that know, know.

arbys 11-12-2017 06:05 PM

I'm using this as my backup plan since I'm having troubles getting my 260 back on the road. Thanks for all the input.

MUSTANG65FBK 11-12-2017 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dennis111 (Post 9442753)
There are some swap headers available but their fit is, at best, iffy.

Entirely false. I have a 351w in my 1965 fastback and used JBA mid length swap headers and the fit is perfect. I've also heard nothing but good things about the JBA headers in general, especially the swap headers and that's why I went with them. Did you ever try using JBA or is your opinion based on word of mouth?

To answer the OP's question. The 351w will fit in the 1965/1966 body styles but you do run into a few issues in terms of fitment and space. As others have mentioned the biggest fitment problem is exhaust or headers. Like I said before, I used the JBA mid length swap headers for a 351w into a 65/66 mustang and have to say the fitment is nearly perfect. I, as well as many others, also had to use the 1966 style motor mounts and motor mount brackets which will push the engine up anywhere between 1/2-1", depending on who you talk to. In doing so, you could have hood clearance issues in terms of height when using a taller intake. I myself have an Edelbrock air gap intake and don't have any clearance issues but then I also have the Shelby fiberglass hood scoop which gives you more clearance. Here's a write up that I did on this very swap when I did it several years ago. If you have any other questions feel free to PM me or ask them on here and I can give you whatever insight I have on the matter. I do agree though with what one user said, unless you're wanting loads of horsepower, like over 400-450+, you're fine with a 302 and even better with a 347 stroker. IMO, it's kind of cool to say that you have a 351w in an early body style mustang but unless you're wanting tons of HP, it's probably not necessary. Although, the extra tq/hp of a stock 351w over a 302 is quite an upgrade and a 351w with aluminum heads an intake is lighter than an all cast iron 302... definitely food for thought.

http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/vi...5-mustang.html

MUSTANG65FBK 11-12-2017 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickgto (Post 9442929)
Have done several 351w's in 65-6 Mustangs. Pretty much a bolt in. Hedman swap (full length, don't remember the part # off the top of my head) ) headers are also a no fuss bolt in. Only real issues are choice of intake as in intake height affecting air cleaner size for hood clearance, and a few of the plugs are a pita to change. Otherwise all stock motor mounts/etc work just fine with no issues. C4 (case fill) and either 3 or 4 speed toploaders also are no issue with the Hedman headers as long as you use the small 157 bell/flywheel or flex. Cooling it is an issue all by itself. If you opt for stock size V8 radiator, DEFINITELY spend the money for a good radiator, ECP, Fluidyne, with shroud if planning on stock type fan. Ebay rads won't cut it. I'm sure some will get mad at me for saying this but doing a 351w swap, I normally use a 67 390 radiator. Some core support trimming is needed to open it up for full airflow but once rad is mounted, it appears factory stock to 90% of the car show gazers. You do need to change water pump to L69-later drivers side inlet as well as timing tab but again, all factory parts. Only those that know, know.

Either my car is possessed or you're remembering these things incorrectly as several of the things that you did or mentioned did not work for me. First... the Hedman headers that I tried were a joke. I tried both the long tube and shorties and on both of them the fit was terrible. They even have one tube on the drivers side that goes up at a sharp angle and would hit my brake booster... no way those things were going to fit as is. Second... the motor mounts are definitely needed to be changed out if you have the 1965 style motor mounts and brackets as they push the engine up almost an inch to help the headers clear the shock towers. Third... my eBay Champion Cooling radiator "cuts it." It's a 3 row aluminum radiator with a 16" electric fan and it never goes over 205 degrees. I just use the stock size/dimension radiator and have had great success with it so far. Also, the Champion Radiators come with a lifetime warranty. Fourth... the water pumps are all the same size dimensionally. The only differences between one another are the flow or the impeller size and where the inlet/outlet are in terms of the hoses going to the radiator.

kenash 11-12-2017 06:32 PM

I, for one, would not try to stuff the 351 into the bay. As mentioned, it's a bunch of headaches in the making. The fitment issues far outway the benefits. All for what, a bunch of cubes. With a few thousand in play, one can put together a stroked 289 to make all the fun you can handle and be able to fiddle around in the engine bay.

rickgto 11-12-2017 06:47 PM

Maybe you didn't read what I said? Or maybe I didn't state it to your understanding? My points. No need for any aftermarket engine mounts. Factory stuff works fine. Guess I should have been more clear in saying to use the 66 mounts. My bad. On the headers. I'll get the numbers but EVERY one I've done with the Hedman swap full length headers (1-5/8" tubes) fit perfectly. No denting, nothing. Trick Flow, E-Heads, Factory iron heads. Never mentioned water pumps being different sizes. Just mentioned the right or left inlet and why using a 67 390 radiator needed drivers side? Never had a stock 289 rad no matter brand cool as well as the 390 rad. Period. The cars I've built with that conversion run at t-stat temp no matter idling in 100 degree traffic or running WOT down an interstate. As with everything, YMMV.

dennis111 11-12-2017 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MUSTANG65FBK (Post 9443001)
Entirely false. I have a 351w in my 1965 fastback and used JBA mid length swap headers and the fit is perfect. I've also heard nothing but good things about the JBA headers in general, especially the swap headers and that's why I went with them. Did you ever try using JBA or is your opinion based on word of mouth?

Sounds like you tend to base your ideas on word of mouth . . . .

I stated my opinion based upon MY experiences using several types of full tube headers. I've never had a desire to run mid length headers as they are performance limiting.

So what's with the demeaning attitude???

BTW the car in my sig is also a PA legally licensed fully capable street car built entirely by me so don't belittle me about your knowledge of all things 351w in a 65/66.

Have a good day.


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