The Great EFI Debate - Page 13 - Vintage Mustang Forums
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post #181 of 193 (permalink) Old 01-08-2019, 05:07 PM
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One other nice thing about fuel injection systems is that they are significantly less likely to wash the oil off of the cylinder walls during the starting process. That can translate into much longer engine life.

If you want the full original experience don't update anything. If you don't mind some updates fuel injection is a great one to do.

Just my opinion.

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post #182 of 193 (permalink) Old 01-08-2019, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by zray View Post
C'mon, give me something at least a little difficult.

To win your challenge, I'd just slap on one of my vintage Paxon superchargers. That would take all of 2 hours including time out for coffee breaks.

Period correct, and will laugh out loud at Mt. McKinley, or what ever North American mountain you have in mind.


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But then that amazing induction setup would need to be removed as well! :-(

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post #183 of 193 (permalink) Old 01-08-2019, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by journeywork View Post
Didn't get any noise interfering with the Sniper controlled timing, so I didn't add any shielding. The HEI distributor is big and wouldn't of fit if I didn't have the curved Monte Carlo bar. I eve had to get an offset air filter and it's still tight. I locked out the distributor so it will signal the Sniper at about 42 degrees before each cylinder reached TDC. The sniper then controls it from there.
I basically followed what this guy did: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9xRJKmaPwA&t=481s
The wiring harness he references (https://www.speedwaymotors.com/MSD-8...ble,64076.html) works great, but don't get the HEI manual adjustment knob. It only works with chevy which has the distributor spinning the opposite (wrong) direction.
That's an interesting video. Some people seem to have trouble with this setup, but the video shows how to set the noise filter to a high setting. And the system seems to work perfectly, yet the coil driver is tie-wrapped to a wire harness.
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post #184 of 193 (permalink) Old 01-08-2019, 07:21 PM
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The way I see it, it is personal preference.


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post #185 of 193 (permalink) Old 01-09-2019, 12:02 AM
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I am running a similar set-up to Journeywork. Sniper, MSD magnetic pick up distributor, a MSD Blaster SS Coil, Sniper coil driver (instead of a big MSD 6AL box), Edelbrock top end kit on a roller cam 302 block, and a spectra EFI fuel tank from rock auto. Cold starts instantly. Revs to 2000 RPM for 2 or 3 seconds, then down to my target of 800.

My car was a shell so I needed a fuel tank, fuel line(s), fuel pump, and either a new Carb or EFI. Fuel tank is a wash vs carb (includes the pump), need one extra fuel line ($100 in material), same intake, and $500 more for Sniper vs good carb. Cost if you're in my situation isn't that material.

I followed the Holley video on how to set up the distributor, and how to wire for timing control. My only issue was I wired the coil driver wrong on first start attempt. Once fixed, it coughed and tried to start. Had distributor 1 tooth off. Reset that and fired instantly. Perfect idle, super responsive, good AF, fans kick on and off perfectly, etc. Static timing check was dead on balls accurate at 12^ at idle (slightly advanced form a stock 5.0 at 10^). 32 degrees total timing to start. I love making a change on the handheld to change parameters. Getting detonation? Change timing. Have a stumble at X RPM? 5 things you can set to change it. Want to advance timing? Done in 5 seconds. Running rich or lean? Can see in real time and fix it. I am still learning the power of the system; pretty amazing. If you like jets, floats, bowls, idle set screws, mixture screws, etc then EFI isn't for you. I'm going to hard pass on all of that.

Regarding all the "gas smell" comments, just note there is "gas smell" and there is "my car has no catalysts like a modern car" smell. I have zero gas/fuel smell, but my 67 Sniper car will stink up the garage just like my 92 Fox body does with an off-road H-pipe.

-- Mike
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post #186 of 193 (permalink) Old 01-09-2019, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by cougar70 View Post
This a good accomplishment. Some people have difficulty with the electronic noise associated with an HEI near the ECU and wires. And usually, they are Chevy's with the HEI even further from the Sniper ECU. And if the timing control is stable, congratulations! Did you do anything special as far as shielding wires?
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Originally Posted by 67Modcoupe View Post
I am running a similar set-up to Journeywork. Sniper, MSD magnetic pick up distributor, a MSD Blaster SS Coil, Sniper coil driver (instead of a big MSD 6AL box), Edelbrock top end kit on a roller cam 302 block, and a spectra EFI fuel tank from rock auto. Cold starts instantly. Revs to 2000 RPM for 2 or 3 seconds, then down to my target of 800.

My car was a shell so I needed a fuel tank, fuel line(s), fuel pump, and either a new Carb or EFI. Fuel tank is a wash vs carb (includes the pump), need one extra fuel line ($100 in material), same intake, and $500 more for Sniper vs good carb. Cost if you're in my situation isn't that material.

I followed the Holley video on how to set up the distributor, and how to wire for timing control. My only issue was I wired the coil driver wrong on first start attempt. Once fixed, it coughed and tried to start. Had distributor 1 tooth off. Reset that and fired instantly. Perfect idle, super responsive, good AF, fans kick on and off perfectly, etc. Static timing check was dead on balls accurate at 12^ at idle (slightly advanced form a stock 5.0 at 10^). 32 degrees total timing to start. I love making a change on the handheld to change parameters. Getting detonation? Change timing. Have a stumble at X RPM? 5 things you can set to change it. Want to advance timing? Done in 5 seconds. Running rich or lean? Can see in real time and fix it. I am still learning the power of the system; pretty amazing. If you like jets, floats, bowls, idle set screws, mixture screws, etc then EFI isn't for you. I'm going to hard pass on all of that.

Regarding all the "gas smell" comments, just note there is "gas smell" and there is "my car has no catalysts like a modern car" smell. I have zero gas/fuel smell, but my 67 Sniper car will stink up the garage just like my 92 Fox body does with an off-road H-pipe.

-- Mike
Sounds like we're pretty close with our setups. I needed a new tank too, the old one had a crack and leak. I think we got the same tank from rock auto with the pump in it (SPECTRA PREMIUM F28AFI). If anyone else is considering this, it has worked well for me. It is plumbed for a 3/8 feed line and a 5/16 return line which follow the specs for the Sniper. I was a little worried that 5/16 return may be too small especially since my 289 doesn't need alot of fuel, but it has worked fine.
The price jumps around on the tank. I got it for $263.64 after shipping.
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post #187 of 193 (permalink) Old 01-09-2019, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by 67Modcoupe View Post

".......Regarding all the "gas smell" comments, just note there is "gas smell" and there is "my car has no catalysts like a modern car" smell. I have zero gas/fuel smell, but my 67 Sniper car will stink up the garage just like my 92 Fox body does with an off-road H-pipe......."
Barring the obvious like a gas leak from a connection or loose fitting, There are a couple of major causes of the gas stink, either too high float level, which obviously doesn't apply to you. The other one is the use of braided fuel line that has the wrong type of lining. If you don't use braided steel line anywhere, then your search is going to be a little more involved, but the source of the smell can definately be tracked down and eliminated with enough perseverance.

Whether a car is carb'd or efi, no one should regard a gassy smelling garage as normal. No car has to have this happening .


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post #188 of 193 (permalink) Old 01-09-2019, 11:26 AM Thread Starter
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Honestly though every classic car gives off some sort of gas smell. My car used to be much worse than before though. Changed all lines, gaskets and seals, gas tank, and even have a newer engine in, still got a smell but not as bad as before.

One advice was to get a pressure valve but I installed it and then removed it because I was not comfortable leaving my fuel tank constantly under pressure.

So I've made peace with it now. Though yes it's nowhere near as bad as before, something I did must have reduced if somewhat.

Even if we convert out cars to EFI, this is only a piggy back system, they are still carb engines and so I would expect certain things like smell, etc to remain as they were pre conversion.

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post #189 of 193 (permalink) Old 01-09-2019, 11:49 AM
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Honestly though every classic car gives off some sort of gas smell. ....."
no one has to put up with any gas smell from a carb'd car. The new Fords my parents owned, from 1959 to the efi era all had stock Autolite 2 and 4 barrel carbs, and had no gas odor, (my mother would never have put up with a gassy smell). When parked in an enclosed garage none of my Shelby or Mustangs reeked of gas, or even had a faint odor, I'm not lucky enough to have gotten the only clean smelling cars. I don't understand why anyone has to accept a gassy smell as normal.

ymmv

An inch by inch examination of the fuel path will always reveal where the smell is coming from.

Z
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post #190 of 193 (permalink) Old 01-09-2019, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by zray View Post
Barring the obvious like a gas leak from a connection or loose fitting, There are a couple of major causes of the gas stink, either too high float level, which obviously doesn't apply to you. The other one is the use of braided fuel line that has the wrong type of lining. If you don't use braided steel line anywhere, then your search is going to be a little more involved, but the source of the smell can definately be tracked down and eliminated with enough perseverance.

Whether a car is carb'd or efi, no one should regard a gassy smelling garage as normal. No car has to have this happening .


Z
+1!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnybravoM3 View Post
Honestly though every classic car gives off some sort of gas smell. My car used to be much worse than before though. Changed all lines, gaskets and seals, gas tank, and even have a newer engine in, still got a smell but not as bad as before.

One advice was to get a pressure valve but I installed it and then removed it because I was not comfortable leaving my fuel tank constantly under pressure.

So I've made peace with it now. Though yes it's nowhere near as bad as before, something I did must have reduced if somewhat.

Even if we convert out cars to EFI, this is only a piggy back system, they are still carb engines and so I would expect certain things like smell, etc to remain as they were pre conversion.

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My throttle body EFI'd '66 does not smell like gas at all - anymore! When I first installed my EFI I used braided SS rubber lines for the entire car and always noticed a tiny bit of a gas smell. After a couple of years, it started getting REALLY bad - so bad that I had to leave the garage door cracked to suck out the fumes, or it would stink up the house. I swapped over to braided SS PTFE fuel lines and the smell went away completely. Any kind of rubber line gets permeable over time (though EFI-rated hose will not get bad quickly like non-EFI rated hose, apparently) and will smell like gas. Something about the ethanol in today's gas corroding the hoses. If you eliminate rubber hose entirely, your car shouldn't smell like gas, ever.

Of course, you might still have some exhaust smell depending on how your EFI is tuned and what your motor setup is, but that's something different entirely.
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post #191 of 193 (permalink) Old 01-09-2019, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by zray View Post
Barring the obvious like a gas leak from a connection or loose fitting, There are a couple of major causes of the gas stink, either too high float level, which obviously doesn't apply to you. The other one is the use of braided fuel line that has the wrong type of lining. If you don't use braided steel line anywhere, then your search is going to be a little more involved, but the source of the smell can definately be tracked down and eliminated with enough perseverance.

Whether a car is carb'd or efi, no one should regard a gassy smelling garage as normal. No car has to have this happening .


Z
Agree - i was assuming people talking gas smell was talking about the exhaust smelling like gas (ie - rich). Lines can really make for bad fuel smell regardless of carb or EFI. I am running Earls vaporguard front to back and don't expect to smell gas. So far, so good!

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post #192 of 193 (permalink) Old 01-09-2019, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by journeywork View Post
Sounds like we're pretty close with our setups. I needed a new tank too, the old one had a crack and leak. I think we got the same tank from rock auto with the pump in it (SPECTRA PREMIUM F28AFI). If anyone else is considering this, it has worked well for me. It is plumbed for a 3/8 feed line and a 5/16 return line which follow the specs for the Sniper. I was a little worried that 5/16 return may be too small especially since my 289 doesn't need alot of fuel, but it has worked fine.
The price jumps around on the tank. I got it for $263.64 after shipping.
Yep, same tank. I took the pump out to check the sock and look for crud in the tank due to reports of issues. Mine was fine. Agree on price...be patient and you can get them for a great deal. I think the pump is pretty quiet...barely louder than the 255 LPH in my old fox body, and no way you will hear it over the exhaust! :-)

Holley wants feed and return the same size to help keep the pump from working too hard, but a Fox uses different size lines I believe. I think it will be fine.

-- Mike
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post #193 of 193 (permalink) Old 01-10-2019, 10:09 AM
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I recommend Earl's Vapor Guard hose. I used it for my whole system and it has held up great.
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