The Great EFI Debate - Page 8 - Vintage Mustang Forums
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post #106 of 193 (permalink) Old 02-04-2018, 01:53 PM
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One of my daily driver's has the fan control temperature sensor IN the radiator tank. From the factory. So do many others.

You guys dogging out speed density/MAP fuel systems need to read up some more. Some guys doing hi-po turbo retrofits are finding that speed density actually works better for them on the track. Honda managed to get along with MAP instead of MAF on their cars into the 2000's. I wouldn't care to be the one to tell them they didn't know what they are doing. They only really went to MAF because of the ever more stringent pollution, noise, and mileage requirements (like everybody else). Stuff that doesn't apply to us. So MAF doesn't quite rule all and speed density systems are very much worth looking at. I mention Honda because they notably managed to meet all their engine performance requirements with speed density rather longer than most other manufacturers. I don't actually LIKE Hondas, but engineering credit where credit is due.
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post #107 of 193 (permalink) Old 02-05-2018, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Rowdy View Post
Who is running their fan off the sniper/fitech? I know the sniper can switch a relay.. based on temp.

Had a bit of a debate with my father about it last night. He figures the temp source for the fan should be at the rad outlet side.. Whereas I am of the belief that all the OEM's put the sensor in the head/intake manifold water passages.
I am. Rad outlet little sense to use. Rad inlet or block/head temp are what matters. You want to control the engine temp, not the radiator. Radiator outlet temperature just tells you how efficient your radiator is.

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post #108 of 193 (permalink) Old 02-05-2018, 02:46 PM
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I am. Rad outlet little sense to use. Rad inlet or block/head temp are what matters. You want to control the engine temp, not the radiator. Radiator outlet temperature just tells you how efficient your radiator is.
That was exactly my argument. The computer wants block temperature. It'll cycle the relay too start the fan based on an increase in actual block temp. What the rad outputs is not relevant to when you want the fan on.

I know some aftermarket setups use a sender than goes in the rad inlet or into the fins of the rad, but I've never much liked them. Not the cleanest looking.
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post #109 of 193 (permalink) Old 03-02-2018, 04:07 PM Thread Starter
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Those who went EFI, did you keep the touch screen plugged in or once that was up and running, you just unplugged it and stored it?

Those who kept it, where did you place it?

Also do you need to drive with the touch screen plugged in for the system to learn? Or will it learn without?

Thanks!

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post #110 of 193 (permalink) Old 03-02-2018, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by JonnybravoM3 View Post
Those who went EFI, did you keep the touch screen plugged in or once that was up and running, you just unplugged it and stored it?

Those who kept it, where did you place it?

Also do you need to drive with the touch screen plugged in for the system to learn? Or will it learn without?

Thanks!

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Stored in the glove box or center console. It does not need to be plugged in to learn. I only connect it when I want to change a setting.
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post #111 of 193 (permalink) Old 03-02-2018, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by gregb View Post
Stored in the glove box or center console. It does not need to be plugged in to learn. I only connect it when I want to change a setting.
I agree 100%. I have my FiTech monitoring block temperature where my temp gauge sensor was plugged in. I moved the temp gauge sensor to the top of the elbow for the heater hose that goes to the intake manifold. Works very well, and is pretty accurate.
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post #112 of 193 (permalink) Old 03-02-2018, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by JonnybravoM3 View Post
Those who went EFI, did you keep the touch screen plugged in or once that was up and running, you just unplugged it and stored it?

Those who kept it, where did you place it?

Also do you need to drive with the touchscreen plugged in for the system to learn? Or will it learn without?

Thanks!

Sent from my HTC U11 using Tapatalk
The ECU of the EFI system is self-contained on the TBI unit. Once set up the system continues to learn. So the touchscreen doesn't need to be connected. But, the touchscreen has an enormous amount of real-time information. On the Sniper you have RPM, temp, volts, AFR, TPS position and much much more. It gives a new meaning to "full instrumentation". Unless you hate to see it, the touchscreen might be helpful.
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post #113 of 193 (permalink) Old 03-03-2018, 12:28 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cougar70 View Post
The ECU of the EFI system is self-contained on the TBI unit. Once set up the system continues to learn. So the touchscreen doesn't need to be connected. But, the touchscreen has an enormous amount of real-time information. On the Sniper you have RPM, temp, volts, AFR, TPS position and much much more. It gives a new meaning to "full instrumentation". Unless you hate to see it, the touchscreen might be helpful.
I agree but as it stands now, it's wires coming from under the dash connected to the touchscreen which I can't put anywhere except my lap. Quite messy and inconvenient, unless I somehow reroute or find a way to tidy this up and then stick the touchscreen to my front windscreen (JDM style ). If anyone has done this would be helpful to get tips.

Thanks!

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post #114 of 193 (permalink) Old 03-03-2018, 10:55 AM
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I have noticed on my 69 Mach1 if it sits for more than a month or so the FiTech hand held connected will pull the battery down. Don't know if this is normal or not. So I've always made it a point to disconnect it if not in use.
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post #115 of 193 (permalink) Old 03-03-2018, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnybravoM3 View Post
Those who went EFI, did you keep the touch screen plugged in or once that was up and running, you just unplugged it and stored it?

Those who kept it, where did you place it?

Also do you need to drive with the touch screen plugged in for the system to learn? Or will it learn without?

Thanks!

Sent from my HTC U11 using Tapatalk
I've got a Holley Dominator setup. You can get a touch screen for it, but I just use a Microsoft Surface as an interface. I only hook it up when I need to check something or do some logging, which is rare.

I think for a permanent setup an LED screen looks a bit out of place in a vintage Mustang. For all the crazy things I've done to mine, to the untrained eye, it all looks mostly period. It isn't until you lift the hood, open the glove compartment or the trunk that things look fishy.

-Shannon
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post #116 of 193 (permalink) Old 03-26-2018, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
interesting analogy Z, and probably pretty close to accurate.

OP i have two classics that i am working on, a 64 falcon with the inline six, and a 66 mustang with the 289. both are keeping their respective engines, the six will definitely get EFI of some sort though, but it will be far more challenging than the 289 to put EFI on since there is no bolt on kit for that engine.(perhaps there is a market there...........)

unlike Z however, i dont think adding EFI to a classic is diluting the classic car experience, if that is all you do. but after adding four wheel disc brakes, modern 17" wheels, tubular suspension components, aluminum radiators, modern sound deadening, and many other modern upgrades that we all like in our modern daily drivers, THAT is diluting the classic car experience.

that said, you still get that experience, you just have to remember that you added orange juice and grenadine to your tequila. you still get that hit of the tequila, you just take a bit of the edge off the unmodified hit.

the choice is yours, carbs are just fine for the most part, though they tend to be less flexible than EFI is, but EFI does have its share of issues as well. mostly the tuning of the system for your vehicle, and modern ones are self learning. carbs are easier to troubleshoot, but EFI is more reliable overall. carbs are less expensive, but require more service overall.

but both can be made to run for many years with little attention.
Thank you for that tid-bit rbohm

I did it the hard way
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post #117 of 193 (permalink) Old 03-27-2018, 10:55 AM
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You saw my carbed version above here is the modified factory set up that got 32.9 MPG highway 20 to 22 city. 270 ft lbs at 2300 RPM max of 300 at 3600 then dropped to 270 ft lbs at 4600. Eventually broke a lifter anti rotation yoke destroying the engine for the most part.
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post #118 of 193 (permalink) Old 03-27-2018, 11:07 AM
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next was this engine originally to be installed in a boat that was sitting in the back room on a engine stand for 7 some years. took 4 some months of data logging and modifying the program of a 92 or 91 Cobra ecm. economy ended up 20 MPG highway. Hurt potential performance in a couple ways first noticed it wouldnt run to the rpm potential of the build do to 16 bit processor in the ECM.
Tuned using a Tweecer and my laptop. Sometimes was up almost all night moding charts , graphs, constants in the program.
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Last edited by turbo2256b; 03-27-2018 at 11:11 AM.
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post #119 of 193 (permalink) Old 03-27-2018, 11:28 AM
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"....... Eventually broke a lifter anti rotation yoke destroying the engine for the most part.
That's a roller lifter, right ??

Z.

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post #120 of 193 (permalink) Old 03-27-2018, 01:55 PM
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If it was using stock 5.0 parts, I'd say he probably means one of these?
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