Issue Bleeding The Brakes - Vintage Mustang Forums
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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-21-2018, 10:28 PM Thread Starter
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Issue Bleeding The Brakes UPDATE

67 convertible mustang that I just bought. I just put in the new master cylinder which I did bench bleed. I started bleeding the back right drum and after having my son pump the brake pedal and holding it to the floor I opened the bleeder valve and nothing came out. Conducted this process 4 more times with the same result, nothing is coming out. So I went to the other back wheel and did the same thing with the same result. I moved to the front drums and both of them did emit brake fluid.

How come I am not getting brake fluid to the rear wheel cylinders on both driver's and passenger sides.

Thanks

Last edited by sleeton; 02-28-2018 at 11:27 AM. Reason: UPDATE
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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-21-2018, 10:44 PM
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first question i have to ask is, did the pedal pump up? if so then when you cracked open the bleed screw, did the pedal then go to the floor? third question is how much pedal travel was there from being pumped up to being on the floor.

its possible that you have a large air bubble in the line somewhere, probably just beyond the connection to the master cylinder.

so what i would do is, have your son pump up the pedal, and then crack one of the line fittings at the master cylinder and see what happens. if you get fluid from the line, then the issue is down stream, if not then the maser cylinder was not properly bled.

another thing you can try is fill a clear bottle with fresh brake fluid, and on the rear most brake, use a clear hose attached to the bleeder with the end in the bottle down in the fluid. then with the bleed screw open, have you son pump the brake pedal like he would in normal braking. if you see either fluid coming out, or being sucked up, that means you have a clear shot and you just need to be patient. if nothing happens, then you have a clogged bleed screw, line or something causing an issue. at that point i would pull the wheel cylinder off and pull it apart and see what is going on inside.
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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-21-2018, 11:58 PM
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The rubber hose that connects the steel brake line from the chassis to the steel brake line on the rear end may be the factory original hose and it is degrading internally and brake fluid flow through it is blocked.
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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-22-2018, 02:15 AM
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4 is probably not enough to fill an empty line. keep going.

I've also heard of problems with the proportioning valve shifting and "closing" the rear circuit. Never seen it, but people have said it.

I had a similiar problem with a 68 with manual front disc / rear drum. I'd had to replace the rear wheel cylinders, hard line and rubber lines. I could not get fluid through the darn thing, so in desperation I bought a motive cap (and hooked it to a garden sprayer to generate pressure). I was able to push it through with the motive cap.

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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-22-2018, 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by awhtx View Post
The rubber hose that connects the steel brake line from the chassis to the steel brake line on the rear end may be the factory original hose and it is degrading internally and brake fluid flow through it is blocked.
^^^^^^^^

a collapsed flexible hose is not uncommon. Looks OK from the outside, but is collapsing inside and little to no fluid passes thru it. If a car is over 20 years old all flexible brake hoses should be replaced as a matter of preventive maintenance


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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-22-2018, 07:05 AM
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Maybe I have been doing it wrong all these years, but it sounds like your sequence may be wrong. I have always opened the bleeder then pushed the pedal. Close the bleeder when the pedal is fully depressed.
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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-22-2018, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Knapper View Post
Maybe I have been doing it wrong all these years, but it sounds like your sequence may be wrong. I have always opened the bleeder then pushed the pedal. Close the bleeder when the pedal is fully depressed.
Your way may work, but it would take forever.
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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-22-2018, 08:02 AM
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Work your way from the back as mentioned. I'd start by disconnect steel line over rear axle before rubber hose, then have someone pump pedal to see if any fluid out rear steel line. Then go from there.
I did have a similar issue once with my son's '92 SHO, opened both rear caliper bleeders, nothing coming out. Ended up both rear rubber brake hose had collapsed. You may have rubber hose over rear axle collapsed. Just work your way back.

FYI, this is also how I've always done, mostly, even owning a vacuum pump.
Maybe I have been doing it wrong all these years, but it sounds like your sequence may be wrong. I have always opened the bleeder then pushed the pedal. Close the bleeder when the pedal is fully depressed.

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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-22-2018, 08:32 AM
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Have you pulled the wheels and checked the wheel cylinders? They could be puking inside the drum and you haven't pushed enough to see it drip out the back. the could be dirty enough inside to hold a ton of juice as well. Also- were the brakes working before you replaced the m/c? You didn't mention the reason for replacement. If it was shot when you got it, the lines could be completely dry and will take well over 4 attempts to fill up. As mentioned above- start at the rear and break lines loose to see where your restriction is- that's after several more attempts. Get after it bud!
FWIW- I've done it the same way as Knapper for 30 years- open bleeder, press pedal, close bleeder, release pedal... always works fine for me and doesn't take long at all. TETO, right?

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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-22-2018, 12:18 PM Thread Starter
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I put on new M/C on as I just bought the car and when I got it home the brake pedal went straight to the floor. I will start investigating from the back to the front, hopefully the problem will expose itself.

Thanks
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post #11 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-22-2018, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by sleeton View Post
I put on new M/C on as I just bought the car and when I got it home the brake pedal went straight to the floor. I will start investigating from the back to the front, hopefully the problem will expose itself.

Thanks
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post #12 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-22-2018, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sleeton View Post
67 convertible mustang that I just bought. I just put in the new master cylinder which I did bench bleed. I started bleeding the back right drum and after having my son pump the brake pedal and holding it to the floor I opened the bleeder valve and nothing came out. Conducted this process 4 more times with the same result, nothing is coming out. So I went to the other back wheel and did the same thing with the same result. I moved to the front drums and both of them did emit brake fluid.

How come I am not getting brake fluid to the rear wheel cylinders on both driver's and passenger sides.

Thanks
I had the exact same issue.
The proportioning valve was clogged internally. I rebuilt it (using West Coast Classic Cougar video and kit). Or replace (not expensive).

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post #13 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-22-2018, 12:47 PM
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I had a similar issue with a new MC recently, and it turned out to be the pushrod length was too short to really pump the fluid with the force necessary to get to the back. It had a threaded pushrod to the brake pedal that once backed out, allowed the travel necessary to pump the fluid. The pedal height seemed too tall, but after bleeding, it went down closer to where it always was. Just another thing to check.
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post #14 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-27-2018, 10:48 AM Thread Starter
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awhtx and zray were dead on, the rubber hose feeding the back brake lines has collapsed thus fluid was not getting back there. The problem I am having now is I cannot get the two metal brake lines disconnected from the block that is attached to the rubber hose. But I slowly continue to IMPATIENTLY try. I love these cars but they can try ones patience sometimes.

Thanks for the help folks!
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post #15 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-27-2018, 11:01 AM
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The problem I am having now is I cannot get the two metal brake lines disconnected from the block that is attached to the rubber hose. But I slowly continue to IMPATIENTLY try.
Don't be impatient! Soak the tubing nuts that screw into the block with PB Blaster or a mix of 50/50 ATF/Acetone. Use a "line wrench" or "flare nut wrench". Absolutely do not use an open end wrench as you will certainly round off the corners of the nut. If you can get the lines loose at the wheel cylinders slide a box end wrench from that end all the way to the block.
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