Borderline stock but reliable 289 build....hit a wall. - Vintage Mustang Forums
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-23-2018, 11:19 AM Thread Starter
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Borderline stock but reliable 289 build....hit a wall.

Body work is about half done and I'm starting to brainstorm engine components. My daughter and I tore down the 289 yesterday and I have to gather ideas on what to buy.

All I want to do is make a fun, reliable weekend car for us to cruise to the drive-in or down to marina, a family car here. No ground pounder wound tight ready to pop engine.

Original plan was a mild cam, 4 barrel intake/carb. For now, keep stock heads and pistons. Use 289 hipo manifolds, sticking with original 3-speed for budget reasons and 3:55 rear end.

I start looking and right off the bat I get all sorts of crazy cam conversations that lead into different pistons then different rocker arm ratio's and before you know it we're into wound tight territory.

My 73 Charger I used performer RPM intake/cam/lifter/carb package on my stock 340 and worked fine. Having a hard time finding such components for the 289. Maybe I'm missing it.

So here are the facts:

Keeping
Original 289 block
Original 289 iron heads (non hipo)
Want to stay with original pistons, or new oem style
Keeping original 3-speed trans for now
3:55 gears

Open to changing
Intake
Carb
Cam
Rockers (possibly)

Not interested in changing blocks or converting over to a 5-speed when I have a perfectly fine original 289 and trans to work on. Can't do fancy aluminum heads at this time, maybe later on. Just a clean step above stock good sounding and fun 289.

Thanks!
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Watch the progress on my 66 coupe here,
http://photobucket.com/projecttetanus
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-23-2018, 11:32 AM
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Just port the stock heads and put a C9OZ ďlikeĒ cam in it and be done. This isnít rocket science. Plenty of reading on the VMF about porting stock 289 heads.
Easy peasy.......

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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-23-2018, 12:36 PM
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The piston clearance stuff happens when you have an aggressive cam. It doesn't sound like you're interested in new valve springs, so the cam you choose will need to be truly mild, so you shouldn't have to worry about that stuff.

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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-23-2018, 02:44 PM
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Before I built my 306, I had upgraded the C-code 289 in my convertible with dual exhaust, edelbrock performer intake and 500 cfm carb. The Summit version of the performer cam - 204/214 @ .05. I had the 3 speed manual with stock 2.8 gears. This combination ran great, was super easy to tune, and sounded good, and had a bit more pep than stock.
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-23-2018, 03:48 PM
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Performer RPM 302 stuff is basically the same stuff for a 289. You would have to change your valve springs for the Performer RPM cam. I ran the Performer RPM package with stock ported heads in one of the previous lives of my 289. To run well at the drags it needed needed lower than stock gears and also more than stock stall. That really, in my opinion, puts it into the too much cam for stock.



For a good stock upgrade I would suggest something in the 268 duration, hydraulic lifter cam with .480 or so lift. That will run the stock valve springs and you won't need any special pistons. I have this cam in my rebuilt 302 in my F150 and even with a ported 289 2 barrel intake and carb and the stock exhaust manifolds it runs really good even with that heavy truck. Stock rocker arms are also fine with this set up.



These are only my own experiences and observations and others may say different things because there are almost as many opinions as there are voices on here.


65 2+2, 331, C4 presently apart for complete a restore
1979 Ford F150 custom, 302, C4, AC, tilt wheel, main transportation

Last edited by macstang; 07-23-2018 at 03:51 PM.
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-23-2018, 04:27 PM
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My 289 needed a .030 over bore to clean it up. I went with all stock internals from Summit, stock 4V cast iron intake, Summit 500 cfm carb and repro Hipo manifolds. Like you I want a reliable driver capable of doing the speed limit, no more no less.
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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-23-2018, 04:30 PM
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Most any cam is going to require new springs, but that's no big deal. Stock heads, and a small 4 bbl intake, I'd run something like this.

https://www.summitracing.com/oh/part...view/make/ford
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-23-2018, 04:42 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the info everyone! Just what I needed.

Heads will be rebuilt by the same shop cleaning up my block, so new springs and all will be put on.

Watch the progress on my 66 coupe here,
http://photobucket.com/projecttetanus
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-23-2018, 11:28 PM
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-Comp 268H cam - works great in stock(ish) SBFís and you can keep your press-in studs
-Any decent 1.6x compression height piston with valve reliefs
-Weiand Street Warrior intake
-Summit 500-cfm carb
-Unless youíre doing it for looks, a decent set of ceramic-coated shorty headers are a better option than HiPo manifolds IMO....cost about the same also.
-Get your distributor advance curve dialed in to drop ~36 degrees by 2500rpm or so.

Tire smoke will be there when you want it!
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-24-2018, 02:55 AM
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Recreate the HiPo specs.

Reliable and fun.

Z
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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-24-2018, 07:52 AM
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I agree with the others. Iíd go with a good valve job at a minimum and the shop may just do that, multi angle at a minimum anyway. Next up, maybe 351W size valves and some minor port work removing sharp edges and bumps if budget allows. The 289 used two basic pistons. The 225 hp A code used pistons that had 4 valve reliefs that displaced about 3CC. The 195 hp C code had pistons with a dish that displaced about 13CC. That 10 extra CC is a full point loss in compression. When you factory advertised compression they didnít include the volume of the head gasket or the 3CC for valve reliefs in both pistons and some other variables that made actual compression less. Stay with pistons having about 3CC volume and your true compression will be about 9.5:1

You want a carb around 500 cfm. Personally I like the Edelbrock and Summit brand. Both have some really good features that make them perform very well which are annular boosters.

On my laptop I have a article bookmarked from one of the on line Mustang magazines. They tested stock exhaust manifolds, K code manifolds and shorty headers on a 67 Mustang with a fresh 289 and 2Ē exhaust system all in the same day, same chassis dyno. The A&C code stock exhaust manifolds made literally the same exact power with in 1hp! The shorty headers made about 10 hp more IIRC. Not sure why both styles of exhaust manifolds made the same power but despite any port mismatch or what ever I would expect to see the K code manifolds to make more power. I wish the magazine explored what the problem was.

Iím going to throw a curve ball at you. Iím cheap, I squeak when I walk. A couple years ago I needed a new motor. I actually have a rebuilt 302 under my bench That I was going to put a set of GT40P heads on (probably the best mass produced sbf head made). After thinking about it, it was actually cheaper for me just to change direction and buy a complete used GT40P motor. Sold the heads I had for $525, bought a GT40P with the trans and EFI stuff for $450. Sold off what I didnít want for $175. So I actually made money and had a very good motor. Bought a used 5.0 cam, used of course for $60, used Stealth intake $80, used 600 Edelbrock carb $125. I recently helped 2nd66 with his car, his old motor took a dump. I got him a complete GT40P with 118k miles for $80! $50 core charge and $100 to pull it or out the door on my trailer for $230.

The point Iím making is donít be afraid to think outside the box. Even at 150K+ miles these engines have a lot of life left in them. You can pick these up cheap, they run really well and even after buying parts needed for a roller cam motor such as flywheel and balancer, itíll still be a lot cheaper then rebuilding your old motor. With a little minor grinding your stock exhaust manifolds will work on the P head with no problems.

Tom

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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-15-2019, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xcelr8 View Post
Body work is about half done and I'm starting to brainstorm engine components. My daughter and I tore down the 289 yesterday and I have to gather ideas on what to buy.

All I want to do is make a fun, reliable weekend car for us to cruise to the drive-in or down to marina, a family car here. No ground pounder wound tight ready to pop engine.

Original plan was a mild cam, 4 barrel intake/carb. For now, keep stock heads and pistons. Use 289 hipo manifolds, sticking with original 3-speed for budget reasons and 3:55 rear end.

I start looking and right off the bat I get all sorts of crazy cam conversations that lead into different pistons then different rocker arm ratio's and before you know it we're into wound tight territory.

My 73 Charger I used performer RPM intake/cam/lifter/carb package on my stock 340 and worked fine. Having a hard time finding such components for the 289. Maybe I'm missing it.

So here are the facts:

Keeping
Original 289 block
Original 289 iron heads (non hipo)
Want to stay with original pistons, or new oem style
Keeping original 3-speed trans for now
3:55 gears

Open to changing
Intake
Carb
Cam
Rockers (possibly)

Not interested in changing blocks or converting over to a 5-speed when I have a perfectly fine original 289 and trans to work on. Can't do fancy aluminum heads at this time, maybe later on. Just a clean step above stock good sounding and fun 289.

Thanks!
Look into the Comp 271H Nostalgia Plus Cam, Edelbrock Performer RPM, buy the full cam kit with matching springs and replace the valve stem seals with the exhaust valve stem seals from a late model 460 truck engine, they're orange silicone, I have the Fel Pro part number somewhere. The idea of pocket porting is good, I did a bowl clean-up and removed the Thermactor lugs from the exhaust ports. The car now has 206HP and 246 ft/lbs. Torque at the wheels. It will spin the tires from a roll with a 3.25 posi and close-ratio Toploader. Sounds good through the Flowmaster exhaust!
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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-15-2019, 07:34 AM
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Ford T-10 HEK-V

Quote:
Originally Posted by xcelr8 View Post
Body work is about half done and I'm starting to brainstorm engine components. My daughter and I tore down the 289 yesterday and I have to gather ideas on what to buy.

All I want to do is make a fun, reliable weekend car for us to cruise to the drive-in or down to marina, a family car here. No ground pounder wound tight ready to pop engine.

Original plan was a mild cam, 4 barrel intake/carb. For now, keep stock heads and pistons. Use 289 hipo manifolds, sticking with original 3-speed for budget reasons and 3:55 rear end.

I start looking and right off the bat I get all sorts of crazy cam conversations that lead into different pistons then different rocker arm ratio's and before you know it we're into wound tight territory.

My 73 Charger I used performer RPM intake/cam/lifter/carb package on my stock 340 and worked fine. Having a hard time finding such components for the 289. Maybe I'm missing it.

So here are the facts:

Keeping
Original 289 block
Original 289 iron heads (non hipo)
Want to stay with original pistons, or new oem style
Keeping original 3-speed trans for now
3:55 gears

Open to changing
Intake
Carb
Cam
Rockers (possibly)

Not interested in changing blocks or converting over to a 5-speed when I have a perfectly fine original 289 and trans to work on. Can't do fancy aluminum heads at this time, maybe later on. Just a clean step above stock good sounding and fun 289.

Thanks!
Any interest in a fully rebuilt '65 T-10 Borg Warner? HEK-V code, respond if you'd like photos and related information, I'm asking $850.
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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-15-2019, 09:43 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by hd_cat View Post
Look into the Comp 271H Nostalgia Plus Cam, Edelbrock Performer RPM, buy the full cam kit with matching springs and replace the valve stem seals with the exhaust valve stem seals from a late model 460 truck engine, they're orange silicone, I have the Fel Pro part number somewhere. The idea of pocket porting is good, I did a bowl clean-up and removed the Thermactor lugs from the exhaust ports. The car now has 206HP and 246 ft/lbs. Torque at the wheels. It will spin the tires from a roll with a 3.25 posi and close-ratio Toploader. Sounds good through the Flowmaster exhaust!
I ended up with the COMP Cams kit K31-218-2 which featured their High Energy cam. I talked to the COMP reps at SEMA and the Nostalgia cam starting RPM range was a tad high for the Performer RPM intake, in their opinion. Went with the High Energy which matches the intake better. Overall I think this will be a great combo for what I'm after. Good to hear you're using a 3.25 as I was torn between that and a 3.55. I'll be picking up 3.25's in a few weeks. They also recommend that gear ratio for this cam.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hd_cat View Post
Any interest in a fully rebuilt '65 T-10 Borg Warner? HEK-V code, respond if you'd like photos and related information, I'm asking $850.
Appreciate the offer, and I could use it. Right now though budget is barking at me and thats a bit outside what I can do at the moment.

Watch the progress on my 66 coupe here,
http://photobucket.com/projecttetanus
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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-15-2019, 10:11 AM
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A couple that have done the "HiPo" cam and some mild upgrades

https://forums.vintage-mustang.com/v...l#post10093334

https://forums.vintage-mustang.com/v...ower-info.html

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