Any Generator Gurus out there? - Vintage Mustang Forums
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-06-2018, 10:09 AM Thread Starter
Otis Campbell
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Question Any Generator Gurus out there?

Hello all,


My 64.5 convertible was restored slowly over the years from 2000-2005. The VMF was a big help to me back in those days. Since then, its been a pretty reliable car.


When I started working on it. I didn't have a generator so one of the things I did back then was buy a newly refurbished generator from some catalog place in California that is long gone.


Since then - in 13 years I've probably put on about 17,000 miles.


Yesterday - while getting ready to leave for a big car show, I started her up and backed into the driveway.



The GEN light was glowing brightly on the dash. I have seen this happen one other time, and it turned out to be the voltage regulator. After that last incident years ago, I had bought an extra VR so I installed it yesterday. I even went through the "polarization" procedure again.



The GEN light is still glowing brightly.


I measured the voltage at the battery. It is 12.7 with the car off and 12.4 with it running. Battery is not charging.


With the car running, I measured the voltage at the A terminal on the VR and am only getting 0.6 V.


Looks to my inexperienced eye that the Generator is not doing anything.


Before I go through the hassle of pulling it out - I just wanted to see if anyone has any suggestions that I might not be aware of.


Thanks!


-Zim

Jason Zimberoff [email protected] - 64.5 convertible
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-06-2018, 11:12 AM
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Did you try flashing the field?

Find the "B" terminal on the regulator and attach one of the alligator clips, find the "D" terminal and touch the terminal with the other alligator clip. You can touch the terminals a few times and it will produce a soft light spark. Under no circumstances touch the "F" terminal or any other part of the regulator or you could damage the regulator.

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Last edited by yarb; 08-06-2018 at 11:16 AM.
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-06-2018, 11:28 AM
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Personally I could never see a reason to flash the field. The source of magnetism is the field windings and them being energized. Alternator field works the same way and you donít here of them being flashed. You do have generators that in place of field windings you have permanent magnetics. The iron in the field windings would get some residual magnetism from normal use.

With the car running see if you have voltage at the field terminal. The old mechanical regulators would have two coils. A fine wire coil that would limit voltage and a heavy wire for amperage limit. You could also make sure you have 12 volt going to the regulator.

Tom

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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-06-2018, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yarb View Post
Did you try flashing the field?

That is the same thing as "polarization" that he mentions in the OP.


How to test the generator


Finding a starter/alternator/generator shop with somebody who knows anything at all about generators is extremely difficult in today's world. Luckily there is one fairly close to me but they don't have a website.
https://www.yelp.com/biz/stanley-aut...c-marble-falls
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-06-2018, 01:47 PM Thread Starter
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So the Mustang Generator has the connection in the back which I will call "A" because it goes to the A terminal on the VR.


It also has the two on the top which are, I believe the field (white wire) and a ground that goes back to a ground screw holding the VR to the radiator panel.


So for this diagram above, I am assuming D+ is the A connection in the back, and DF is the Field connection on the top?


Thanks!

Jason Zimberoff [email protected] - 64.5 convertible
260 V8 - C4 Auto - Power Top - Console - 4 Wheel Drums

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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-06-2018, 04:08 PM
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The new voltage regulator that you brought is bad.
I had the exact same issues.
It took forever with an auto electrician to find out eventually that the new one was faulty.
Purchased another voltage regulator and all is well in generator heaven.
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-06-2018, 04:24 PM
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Hey ZIM (Jason) .....Where have you been hiding buddy!??!??

Jason,

Have you considered going with the PowerMaster PowerGEN Alternators that look like a Stock Ford Generator?! You can buy them through SUMMIT....and they are EXCELLENT!

Get the best of both worlds

See here:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/p.../model/mustang


)

Tony K.
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-06-2018, 04:31 PM
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ZIM, This will help...

)

Tony K.
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File Type: jpg 64vs65 GENERATOR Diagram.jpg (57.5 KB, 3 views)
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Tony Kovar
Melbourne, FL (Formerly from Long Island, NY!)

1965 Mustang Convertible 200cid I6, 3spd Manual (Soon to be swapped for a '65 Date Coded C4!)
1966 Mustang Sprint 200 Registry Owner/Moderator
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-06-2018, 08:02 PM
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Might also check the brushes to make sure they are in good order.
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-06-2018, 11:58 PM Thread Starter
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An UPDATE!


So in the back of my mind, I was finding it hard to believe that the generator itself had failed, as I have seen how unreliable the Voltage Regulators are on these cars in the past.


Tony 64 above said exactly what I would have told someone else too.


Then when browsing around on youtube I found this video:


In short, he suggests connecting a jumper between the battery and the field terminal of the VR to bypass it and send full power to the field. If the generator starts charging, then the generator is not the problem - the VR is...


With the engine running, I did this and got a big spark - then disconnected the jumper.


I tried it again and got NO spark. I left the jumper connected and looked inside the car - NO GEN LIGHT!


I disconnected the jumper - and the light stayed off.


Shut the car off - turned the key to On and the GEN light came back on. Started the car, and it shut off immediately.


Now I'm getting 14.5 V at the battery when its running.


So to summarize - I am not really sure why it started working again. I did do the polarization procedure before, and apparently either didnt do it right, or didnt use a large enough gauge wire, or - I did do it right and something else was wrong. Perhaps the big spark I saw when I first energized the field was the new VR waking up and blowing the soot off of whatever was preventing it from working.


The cause of the problem will remain a mystery. But for now - everything is working as it should again.


I will go buy another VR just to have yet another backup...


Thanks all!


-Zim

Jason Zimberoff [email protected] - 64.5 convertible
260 V8 - C4 Auto - Power Top - Console - 4 Wheel Drums

Zim's 64.5 Mustang -- Mustang Color Archive -- Chicago Vintage Mustang Club



"Nobody ever learned anything from listening to themselves talk..." - My grandfather

Last edited by zim64half; 08-07-2018 at 12:03 AM.
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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-07-2018, 12:13 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NEFaurora View Post
Hey ZIM (Jason) .....Where have you been hiding buddy!??!??

Jason,

Have you considered going with the PowerMaster PowerGEN Alternators that look like a Stock Ford Generator?! You can buy them through SUMMIT....and they are EXCELLENT!

Get the best of both worlds

See here:

...

Hi Tony! Yes - I've been quiet around these parts lately. My kids are at the age where most of my Mustang time is now baseball soccer homework and Boy Scout time. But I will take that trade anytime, and the Mustang will still be here when they are grown and gone...



I did see those new alternators that look like generators and am intrigued - but now that I got it working I will hold off separating myself from $400.


I do wonder though - they are described as being 1 wire alternators - so how would that change the wiring diagram for the conversion?


Glad someone remembers me!


-Zim

Jason Zimberoff [email protected] - 64.5 convertible
260 V8 - C4 Auto - Power Top - Console - 4 Wheel Drums

Zim's 64.5 Mustang -- Mustang Color Archive -- Chicago Vintage Mustang Club



"Nobody ever learned anything from listening to themselves talk..." - My grandfather
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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-07-2018, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NEFaurora View Post
ZIM, This will help...

)

Tony K.
thanks, that will help when I'm ready to put the gen back on in a couple weeks.
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