Vintage Mustang Forums banner

How do I verity a NASCAR Mustang?

4K views 22 replies 17 participants last post by  Huntingky 
#1 ·

Attachments

See less See more
5
#2 ·
The original idea behind the Boss 429 was Ford wanted to compete in NASCAR with a 429 powered production car. Under the rules at the time, Ford needed to build at least 500 examples available to the general public to qualify for that race series. Thus the Boss 429 was born.

For a number of reasons, the production Mustangs were not completed on standard Ford assembly lines. Ford assembled partial cars and then sent them to Kar Kraft for modification into Boss 429 cars. Kar Kraft assigned unit numbers to each Boss 429 it assembled thus the "KK" tag on the driver's door. Presence of that tag would not be "proof" that that particular was actually raced in NASCAR. I would expect that cars actually raced in NASCAR were sent directly to Holman Moody for final tweaking and race car duty rather than one of Ford's franchised dealers as shown on the Marti Report.

If this car was actually raced, there would be solid documentary evidence of that fact and not a mere "possibly" statement by the seller. The absence of that provenance documentation leads me to doubt the seller's claim.

Checking with the Boss 429 Registry should provide some indication of the car's actual history.
 
#3 ·
No Mustangs, that I'm aware of, were ever entered into any NASCAR race, ever, during the 60's/70's. They were built to homologate the ENGINE for NASCAR racing in Torino's/Marauders, the mid sized cars used in NASCAR races of that time period.

I doubt that the seller is trying to say that this is a NASCAR "RACE" car. He is probably referring to the engine designation, early Boss 429's had internal differences, (S code) vs later engines with smog and different cams (T and A code). However, being a 70 model, I doubt that it has the early S code engine. Seller may not know this or perhaps the engine has been changed/modified, or he's making it sound better in order to sell it. Kar Kraft modified/built every Boss 429 for Ford.

You'll need to do more research in order to determine the actual engine code. You need to be aware that this car is far from a "stock" Boss 429. It's value isn't anywhere near a stock, correct Boss 429 Mustang and I doubt the engine code is going to have any effect on the value/performance of this particular car since it has been highly modified.

The Marti report verifies that the car is indeed a genuine Boss 429 Mustang. This car has been highly modified, it's far from stock, and that's the reason for it's value, most are well above 150k...
 
#4 ·
All Original BOSS 429's built by KarKraft had "KK NASCAR" Decals. The car you asking about in questions is already a "Well known" car....featured in Hot Rod Magazine in the 1980's. I believe it is currently owned by these guys here below in Ohio...or friends of his.. If you want to know more about the car Contact Rick Porter at BOSSCARS website below and see video of the car..


Here's a YOUTUBE! video Last week from them....The 1970 Boss 429 in question is in the video...

Bosscars.com

See the car here at 13:13sec



Here's a YOUTUBE! video Last week from them....The 1970 Boss 429 in question is in the video...


You need to contact these guys to verify the car....

Boss 429 Mustang parts large or small, contact us.


:eek:)

Tony K.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Huntingky
#5 ·
All Boss 429 Mustang had that "KK 429 NASCAR" door tag. And it has the Boss 429 engine. Of course, these facts don't make the car a genuine, factory Boss 429 Mustang.


As mentioned, verifying this would require the VIN and a close inspection to make sure someone didn't simply transfer a Boss 429 engine, door tag and VIN to a 1970 fastback.
 
#6 ·
Learned something new today!


I have to ask, is that hood what would have been on it originally, or aftermarket??
 
#8 ·
NASCAR raced Mustangs in the Grand American series. Many had front sub frames installed that were a narrowed version of the Holman-Moody Grand National frames.
 
#18 ·
I have heard a little (very little) about that but my understanding was the CI limit was 366 for the engines so a no start for any 429 car ever. But never mind that, you say they were grafting GN front chassis parts onto the cars? What for exactly I wonder? This was about the same time frame (or a bit after?) the Boss 302 cars were showing how the stockish chassis worked pretty well.
 
#9 ·
When Ford set out to sell 500 cars with the new Blue Crescent engine for NASCAR homologation purposes it was widely assumed the engine would be offered in the Torino chassis. Iacocca (or was it Knudsen?) surprised everybody when it was announced that the engine would be offered in the Mustang chassis.
 
#22 ·
I have read Ford decided to put the Boss 429 engine into a Mustang because the Mustang was so popular. Ford was concerned they wouldn't be able to sell enough Boss 429 Torinos or Cyclones to the public. (Maybe with the Boss Nine engine they would be too expensive?) I recall Dodge and Plymouth had a tough time selling their "Winged" cars at the dealers which suggests Ford's concern was justified.

After the Boss 429 cars dominated NASCAR, NASCAR decided to ban all "exotic engines" which included the Boss Nine and Chrysler Hemi. Yeah, GM was whining, but NASCAR was also concerned about safety. Remember, they were still racing actual "Stock Cars" back then and, with a modified Hemi or Boss 429 under the hood, track speeds were getting beyond ridiculous for such cars. Crashes might be exciting, but dead drivers aren't.
 
#10 ·
As was mentioned, the car is shown in that video and it mentions that the previous owner has passed on so you may run into a dead end researching the history. I do know that the car has been around for awhile and I don't believe it ever hit the super speedways. It did hit the street racing scene back in the late 70s , early 80s time period. I saw it and took a few pictures of it at the Car Craft Street Machine Nationals back about 1990. I talked to the owner briefly but I don't remember whether he ever mentioned it being on a track. May have but my memory is pretty fuzzy after all these years.
 
#12 ·
From the ad:

"****** The appraised value of this vehicle is $165,000.00. To be in compliance with the Probate Court requirements this vehicle must be sold for a minimum of 80% of it's appraised value which is $132,000.00."
 
#13 ·
according to the description it has a 460 in it too :shrug:

This screams "Run Away" to me.

Also, does the probate court thing mean its being sold because of an estate issue??
 
#15 ·
The Mustang was NOT raced in what was called the NASCAR Grand National series back in the late '60s and early '70s. In 1971 it changed names to the Winston Cup series.
At the time the Blue Crescent 429 was used (1969 and 1970) Ford had the Torino Talladega, Dodge had the Superbee and Plymouth had the Superbird. GM had nothing that could compete with the Ford/Dodge/Plymouth and did not even field any cars. The Ford Blue Crescent 429 was so superior to the Dodge/Plymouth 426 Hemi that Richard Petty switched to Ford for the 1969 NASCAR season. After 2 years of domination by the Fords, GM and D/P cried to the NASCAR officials and they banned the Blue Crescent 429.
 
#17 ·
Our Mustang that was slated to be a factory race car was sold to Ford Marketing Services, delivered to the "Ford Tech Center" near the factory, where the engine and trans were pulled to send to Holman & Moody, and the rest of the car went to Dearborn Steel & Tubing for the chassis build. If the car didn't do any of that, it's probably just a car that was modified in the years after.
 
#19 ·
On a slightly different note this is a 50 year old car. It means back when this car was built, it was not a very collectable car. Yeah a little special but not enough to keep 100% stock. People bought them and modified them. By the mid 70's all these muscle cars lost their glory to the oil embargo, insurance rates and so on. You could by them dirt cheap. People were buying fuel efficient cars. Over the course of years these cars were abused. Add several generations of owners later who really know nothing of the past. No offense to younger people today I see so many people who don't know how to adjust carburators, set ignition timing or how to use a timing light. Not meant as a dig but how technology changes and different view points.

So what I'm saying back in the day these cars were just cars. A lot can happen over 50 years. This could have well been a true Boss 429 and would have those labels and tags and be worth a lot of money today. Or a true Boss 429 modified when it wasn't super special or a plain Jane 6 cylinder Mustang made to look like a original Boss 429
 
#20 ·
There were no B429 Mustangs in NASCAR..... Grand American/Grand Touring or whatever. Plenty of pony cars though. Lower SCCA-style
CID limit initially..... increased to 366 like has been said.
 
#23 ·
From about 1980 at the Street Machine Nationals in Indy
 

Attachments

This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top