CSRP Manual Front Disc Conversion Issue - Page 3 - Vintage Mustang Forums
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post #31 of 56 (permalink) Old 10-29-2018, 11:59 AM
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Another possibility.....remove the connection to the rear junction block coming from the front (MC) and blow compressed air. This will verify a clear line from the junction block to the rear cylinders, although, I expect there will be a mess of fluid out of the lines?

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post #32 of 56 (permalink) Old 10-29-2018, 12:27 PM
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https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/...2701/7621295-P

These speed bleeders made bleeding my brakes a simple one man job and i got all the air out quite quickly. I've never had a problem with a soft pedal since.

I don't know what size bleeders you need - check the diameter for the correct fit.

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post #33 of 56 (permalink) Old 10-29-2018, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dans68 View Post
Didnít know about the emergency brake disconnect. Good idea.

@289vert - good call on pulling the line. Iíll have one of the kids push on the pedal while I watch for flow.

@Mustang4SF I bled thin by myself using the bleeder line and bottle method. And, also tried a bleeder pump.

It is always good to have another person to push the pedal. For me it sounds like the wheel cylinder or the connection from the hard line to the wheel cylinder. I would also remove the drum and check the cylinder. If air goes in the system, fluid most like goes out while you apply pressure.



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post #34 of 56 (permalink) Old 10-29-2018, 02:26 PM Thread Starter
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@JSHarvey - Good to know... wondering they would give false positives though? Meaning if the issue is in the lines somewhere, the bleeders having a check valve would give you a solid stream of fluid from the bleeder to the bottle, no matter what.

@Mustang4SF - Agreed. My 10 yr old is good for about 5 minutes and then it's "I'm bored Dad". ;-)

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post #35 of 56 (permalink) Old 10-29-2018, 03:41 PM
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“A residual valve is usually warranted in the rear brake line when disc/drum arrangement is in place, just as the necessity of having a Proportioning valve. Shoes, by virtue of their design, "rest" a greater distance from the drum surface compared to disc. The residual valve acts to prevent the brake shoe from retracting from the drum this "greater distance" by maintaining a small bit of pressure in the rear line, thus, preventing the shoes from retracting more as they would without it”

NOT picking on you......
This statement is a total fallacy.
Neither a 2# or a 10# residual valve will do ANYTHING to battle drum shoe tension. Those springs are way stronger.
A residual valve is plumbed in line to keep pressure in the line, so that fluid will have a far lesser tendency to flow back into the master cylinder.
Also a big deal in the street rod business where brake calipers sometime wind up being higher in the brake system than master cylinders.

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post #36 of 56 (permalink) Old 10-29-2018, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dans68 View Post
"..... My 10 yr old is good for about 5 minutes and then it's "I'm bored Dad". ;-)
keep pushing.

The ability to have sustained periods of concentration is what's going to separate the haves from the have-nots.


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post #37 of 56 (permalink) Old 10-29-2018, 09:55 PM Thread Starter
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Well still stumped. I disconnect the right rear line and then pumped the brake pedal. Fluid was pushing out. It sure if it’s a lot or a little. But I did forget to turn the proportioning valve all the way counter clockwise first. See video of flow here. Sorry for the bad position. Look at the top of the drum to the left. You can see top of the brake line.

https://youtu.be/TPnZZkn_Fp8

Re installed and bled that line. Pushed 3 reservoirs worth of fluid. This time I did get a solid stream with just barely a couple little micro sized bubbles once in a while.

I’m starting to think my brake pedal is maybe not adjusted properly. Maybe I’m not in understanding the instructions for adjusting the pedal. I simply adjust it to match up the length of the original master cylinder. I also know that my rear brake lights aren’t turning on when the break is pushed. The half inch of play is just the movement between the rod and the pin holding it to the pedal. The higher portion of the pedal looks to have about a half inch gap to the dash frame. Is that right, or should it be adjusted higher.

Can I adjust the pushrod length without removing it from the brake pedal pin? If not, it looks like I’ll have to unbolt the master cylinder and try to angle it off because that pin looks lik it is welded or press fit to the pedal. I can’t just slide the pin out?

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J Code - 302 4bbl.

Last edited by Dans68; 10-29-2018 at 10:19 PM.
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post #38 of 56 (permalink) Old 10-29-2018, 11:31 PM
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To make sure, you verified that the rear of the master cylinder, the bigger bowl is plumbed to the front brakes right and the smaller one in the front is plumbed to the rear brakes?

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post #39 of 56 (permalink) Old 10-30-2018, 01:45 AM
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A quick and simple check....

I just recently had a low pedal issue with the wife’s 66. I looked everywhere for problems and found some slight dampness on the proportioning valve, where the brake light warning switch threads in. I unthreaded the switch and I could see brake fluid in that cavity (which isn’t normal). I gave the brakes a pump with the switch out and out squirted the brake fluid! Turns out my new proportioning valve had a buggered up o ring which was causing a small leak under heavy pedal pressure (and funky inconsistent pedal feel). I replaced the o ring, bled the system, and all is well now. Worth a quick look anyway...

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post #40 of 56 (permalink) Old 10-30-2018, 08:25 AM Thread Starter
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@my289 - Yup, checked. Small front bowl to rear, and large bowl to front.

@daveoxide - Thanks for the hint. You are referring to the distribution block. I'll take a look at that tonight. Mine (1968 version) is non servicable, so if by change there's fluid where the sensor is, I'll have to replace the whole block.

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post #41 of 56 (permalink) Old 10-30-2018, 10:43 PM Thread Starter
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Ok some success tonight. I checked and rechecked all the connections again. Found a slight, very tiny leak at the join from proportioning valve to rear brake line. Tightened and re bled the rear. Pressed the pedal over and over. Seemed pretty firm after about 2Ē of travel. Checked for leaks. None.

Then, I also adjusted the travel of the brake pedal. About 1/4Ē higher. Thereís about 3/8Ē between the pedal stop and upper frame.

Adjusted the proptioning valve to about 3/4 bias and took it for a spin. Better. More braking power. Iíd say 75% and nose dives slightly on brake.

Did some break-in routings for a while and adjusted proportioning valve some more. I didnít try to lock them up for fear of damaging the pads or rotors before ample break in.

After about a 20 min drive came back in. Fronts rotors were hot to the touch. Like hot coffee cup hot. Not extreme. Left rear drum was moderately warm, and rear right just barely warm.

Still not 100% confident but Iím thinking now it might be partial rear brake adjustment and me being so used to modern power brakes.

How would the rear brakes be adjusted? With the tires off I could spin the drum and you can hear the pads dragging slightly. Albeit, they seemed to be out of round or something as the grap more in certain parts of the rotation.

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post #42 of 56 (permalink) Old 10-30-2018, 10:52 PM
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can you refresh my memory:

are the rear shoes new ?

did you have the rear drums turned (i.e. machined so that they are perfectly round ?

if not, those two things will make a world of difference in having a reliable and safe braking system

Z.

PS btw, getting a Ford published shop manual will make working on your car so much easier. From your questions it sounds like you don't have one. Amazon sells them on CD for about $22. That would be the best investment one can make toward having a great running vintage Mustang.


Last edited by zray; 10-30-2018 at 10:55 PM.
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post #43 of 56 (permalink) Old 10-31-2018, 08:34 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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can you refresh my memory:

are the rear shoes new ?

did you have the rear drums turned (i.e. machined so that they are perfectly round ?

if not, those two things will make a world of difference in having a reliable and safe braking system

Z.

PS btw, getting a Ford published shop manual will make working on your car so much easier. From your questions it sounds like you don't have one. Amazon sells them on CD for about $22. That would be the best investment one can make toward having a great running vintage Mustang.
No. Rear shoes and drums are not new. Their ages is unknown. Looks to be about 1/4" or more of shoe left, and drums are smooth and look to have over 1/4". I do feel they may not be perfectly round. When you spin the drum, the shoes will grab more at certain spots.

I'm going to look into getting the drums turned and throw on some new shows.

Yup - ordering the shop manual this morning.

--
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J Code - 302 4bbl.
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post #44 of 56 (permalink) Old 10-31-2018, 04:29 PM Thread Starter
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Also, why oh why is my brake lights not working anymore? I reinstalled exactly how it was before... but lights do not brighten when I push the pedal.

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post #45 of 56 (permalink) Old 10-31-2018, 06:34 PM
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Might be something useful in this thread.

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