Wiped Cam Lobe? - Page 4 - Vintage Mustang Forums
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post #46 of 131 (permalink) Old 11-06-2018, 03:16 PM
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I have always thought, running the softest valve springs possible is wise as it will have less resistance to turn the cam. I do not buy the idea that some lobes are going down, so they offset the up turns.

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post #47 of 131 (permalink) Old 11-06-2018, 05:27 PM
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Do you have a reference for this statement? I ask because I've never seen anything suggesting this. Everything I have read indicates flat tappet lifters float on a layer of oil which just as slick as a roller lifter. I've also read about Smokey Yunick rollerizing everything possible on a test engine and learning it made absolutely no difference in power output.

I will readily accept I'm completely out to lunch on this subject if I see credible evidence.

Good call out. I remember that from a long time ago. It was a statement from a Pontiac engineer. So I googled it or info any way. Go to page 2, bullet 2. According to that piston and ring friction is 60%, rod and main 30% which would leave 10% valve train. Looks like pistons with low tension rings and anti friction coating on the skirts is the low hanging fruit.

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post #48 of 131 (permalink) Old 11-06-2018, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Klutch View Post
There's an interesting episode of "Engine Masters" where they directly compare a flat tappet cam to a roller cam. The Roller cam had a definite advantage, but only above 5,000 RPM as I recall. The advantage was about 25 HP. Roller cams do have an advantage in high-RPM applications that most street engines will never see.
it's very easy to get a street engine to 5000 rpm and above if it has any gear at all (and especially if it has a decent amount of power). whether or not the engine sees that RPM is up to the operator. so I encourage you to not put some sort of ceiling on the engine just because it's on the street.

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post #49 of 131 (permalink) Old 11-06-2018, 10:00 PM Thread Starter
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it's very easy to get a street engine to 5000 rpm and above if it has any gear at all (and especially if it has a decent amount of power). whether or not the engine sees that RPM is up to the operator. so I encourage you to not put some sort of ceiling on the engine just because it's on the street.
Very good point and I do understand that. In fact, in the brief time I drove my Mustang, if I gave it any gas at all, the engine zipped up to 5,000 almost instantly in every gear except OD. The tires didn't break traction at all. I have a 3.70 rear gear and it could have easily spun above 6,000. (I think the cam is designed to pull up to 6,500.)

My point was some people seem to believe a roller cam significantly improves overall performance and I don't think that's the case.

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Last edited by Klutch; 11-06-2018 at 10:02 PM.
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post #50 of 131 (permalink) Old 11-07-2018, 07:31 AM
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I always thought roller cams and lifters were all about reliability.
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post #51 of 131 (permalink) Old 11-07-2018, 09:56 AM
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I always thought roller cams and lifters were all about reliability.
They are! No break in. After my initial wiped cam, I headed straight for the roller door. Sounds like a sewing machine.....except for the exhaust.

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post #52 of 131 (permalink) Old 11-07-2018, 11:50 AM
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My point was some people seem to believe a roller cam significantly improves overall performance and I don't think that's the case.
Roller lifters allow for more aggressive profiles than flat tappets, so they can improve the "area under the curve" and allow for a valve being held open higher for a longer a period of time, which improves performance.
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post #53 of 131 (permalink) Old 11-07-2018, 07:59 PM
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After have just gone through this with my 289, that video looks just like the stuck lifter that I had. Intake on #6 would only go up about half way just like the video. Pulled the intake and checked the location and the lifter was already stuck. Engine out, metal every where rebuild. It also ate the cam lobe for good measure.

Looks like you might have to pull the engine. Check out the picture for an idea of what happened.

Sorry this happened to you and hope your not in the same mess I am in.
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post #54 of 131 (permalink) Old 11-07-2018, 08:14 PM Thread Starter
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After have just gone through this with my 289, that video looks just like the stuck lifter that I had. Intake on #6 would only go up about half way just like the video. Pulled the intake and checked the location and the lifter was already stuck. Engine out, metal every where rebuild. It also ate the cam lobe for good measure.

Looks like you might have to pull the engine. Check out the picture for an idea of what happened.

Sorry this happened to you and hope your not in the same mess I am in.
Do you know what caused your stuck lifter?

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post #55 of 131 (permalink) Old 11-07-2018, 08:21 PM
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My best guess was the valve lash wasn't setup correctly and should have been checked before running it for the first time/brake in.

I figure the small amount of play is what got it started, rotating metal finished it off during the break in run.

But it's back with the builder getting a warranty repair at no cost to me. Still sucks.

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post #56 of 131 (permalink) Old 11-07-2018, 09:51 PM
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Klutch, sorry to hear this happened to you! That's a huge bummer

Lifters seem to be big sources of failures in motors these days. I don't see people reporting dropped valves, spun bearings, etc. nearly as often as I see people reporting lifters exploding, or locking up, or getting stuck. End result is always the same - wiped cam and usually a wiped motor. Kind of makes me nervous. The Lunati lifters I have have a really good reputation so I'm hopeful for them.

Klutch, whatever you end up doing I think will be just fine. Rollers are great for reliability and peace of mind, but they do come with a cash cost up front. Flat tappets are also great, just a little more finicky to set up. If it were me I would not be comparing them from a performance standpoint so much as a "convenience vs. money" standpoint. Roller is convenient but expensive, flat tappet is somewhat inconvenient but inexpensive.


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post #57 of 131 (permalink) Old 11-07-2018, 10:00 PM
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Get the center oiling lifters from Comp Cams.


Mark

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1966 Mustang 2+2

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post #58 of 131 (permalink) Old 11-08-2018, 08:57 AM Thread Starter
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Klutch, sorry to hear this happened to you! That's a huge bummer

Lifters seem to be big sources of failures in motors these days. I don't see people reporting dropped valves, spun bearings, etc. nearly as often as I see people reporting lifters exploding, or locking up, or getting stuck. End result is always the same - wiped cam and usually a wiped motor. Kind of makes me nervous. The Lunati lifters I have have a really good reputation so I'm hopeful for them.

Klutch, whatever you end up doing I think will be just fine. Rollers are great for reliability and peace of mind, but they do come with a cash cost up front. Flat tappets are also great, just a little more finicky to set up. If it were me I would not be comparing them from a performance standpoint so much as a "convenience vs. money" standpoint. Roller is convenient but expensive, flat tappet is somewhat inconvenient but inexpensive.
Thanks, Kelly. Always nice to hear from you and I greatly appreciate your encouragement. I sure hope to get my Mustang on road soon. If you're in Colorado Springs again, I'd be happy to give you a ride. Shoot, you can drive it if you want. It's not like rowing gears is anything new to you.

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post #59 of 131 (permalink) Old 11-10-2018, 04:27 PM Thread Starter
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Today I removed the intake manifold and and pulled the lifter from the number one cylinder exhaust valve. As you can see in the picture, it is significantly cupped. I will send this picture to Bullet and see what they say.

As you can see in the other picture, the lifter valley looks very clean. I can't find any metal shavings anywhere. I'm hoping I can get away with replacing the cam and not tearing down the engine. I will remove and cut open the oil filter to see what that might reveal.

And I'd like to know how I angered the car gods, or something because when I removed the carburetor, a piece of it stayed on the intake. That's right, a piece of the carburetor broke completely off. I didn't pry or force the carburetor. It lifted off easily. When I installed the carburetor, I simply snugged the bolts with a 1/4" drive ratchet as I have done for the past 40 years. It's a Summit carb which appears to be well made.

I think I'll go see a movie, or something, lest I commit seppuku.
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post #60 of 131 (permalink) Old 11-10-2018, 04:31 PM
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Summit has been good to me about questionable merchandise. Contact them and they may replace it.

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