Battery relocation planning: How many feet and what wire did you use? - Vintage Mustang Forums
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post #1 of 67 (permalink) Old 11-25-2018, 12:23 AM Thread Starter
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Battery relocation planning: How many feet and what wire did you use?

I'm relocating my big heavy agm battery to the trunk, rear passenger side, shopping for fat wire, bulk, per foot to do it. From those of you that did it like that, how many feet did you use? Never one to buy a kit, I need wire for my '68 Coupe plus a boat project, so buying once bulk kills two birds with one stone.

I'd like to run it thru the interior, under the carpet along the passenger door, I'm thinking? I'll use rubber or (plastic?) grommets at every sheet metal penetration, unless there's something better?

Wire gauge: 1/0? Is that thick enough? That's what I'll also need for the boat.

Type: marine wire or welding wire? Which has thicker insulation?

Any good battery boxes you guys recommend that allows for later install of Flaming River battery cutoff switch? I'm planning on using a group 24 size battery, any benefit to going larger? Car will have a/c, dual electric fans, poss elect water pump, maybe an amp for stereo and a small subwoofer? Leaning towards a plastic box for conductivity, or lack thereof? Might just use a marine battery box and HD straps? Kinda like the look of the plastic box Midnight Designs used in their write up, below, but dang that wasn't simple!

Good reads on relocating battery:

Mustang Steve's

Midnight Designs write up. This guy got COMPLICATED. Made a flat floor for his trunk. I'm guessing he wasn't worried about adding weight?

Any other simple tips? Should the solenoid be relocated too or is there no good reason? I'd like to keep it easy. Short negative ground at the battery and extra ground to the engine block too right?

One source here for bulk pre-made marine wire at Genuine Dealz, however, I've got no prob cutting, clamping and soldering connections myself.

Is welding cable a better choice? Insulation thicker? More flexible and durable? Found this bulk source online, is that a good price?
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post #2 of 67 (permalink) Old 11-25-2018, 10:21 AM
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I didn't relocate my battery, so I can't help with the wire lengths. However, I did use 1/0 welding cable for my battery leads. The "kits" tend to use low strand count wire that is very stiff, welding cable is very flexible and has a tough, abrasion resistant insulation jacket. Bought it by the foot from Mcmaster-Carr, along with the lugs and terminals. Crimped and soldered the whole deal, with adhesive lined heat shrink to finish.
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post #3 of 67 (permalink) Old 11-25-2018, 01:02 PM Thread Starter
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I didn't relocate my battery, so I can't help with the wire lengths. However, I did use 1/0 welding cable for my battery leads. The "kits" tend to use low strand count wire that is very stiff, welding cable is very flexible and has a tough, abrasion resistant insulation jacket. Bought it by the foot from Mcmaster-Carr, along with the lugs and terminals. Crimped and soldered the whole deal, with adhesive lined heat shrink to finish.
Good call HemiKiller, on McMaster-Carr, I've bookmarked sway bar collars I need to order from them. They could have the largest variety of Shrink Tubing I've ever seen! I was totally looking at dual wall shrink tube with the sealant that melts inside, not sure why EVERY shrink tube doesn't come that way. McMaster sells the sealant separately too.

Good price on 1/0 welding wire, $3.88/ft, however, their 1/0 'battery wire' $5.41/ft, is rated for 'amps' (260), and flexible welding wire, same .53" diameter, uses 'volts' rating?? My question, is 260 amps enough? What's the difference, marine vs stiff welding or flexible welding? Tinned copper vs just copper? I know marine has many more fine wires making it more flexible, but this wire isn't really going to move once it's installed.

I'm looking for a 'feet used' number by others, because I'm thinkin' I'll buy the wire in bulk. My boat I'll have a pretty exact number, like 20 ft of wire I'll need, but don't really know how much I'll need for the mustang?

Last edited by Fishfreq; 11-25-2018 at 01:10 PM.
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post #4 of 67 (permalink) Old 11-25-2018, 03:10 PM
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been looking at doing this as well ebay has some good deals on wire ,also check tractor supply if you have one in your area
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Last edited by 2nd 66; 11-25-2018 at 03:16 PM.
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post #5 of 67 (permalink) Old 11-25-2018, 04:37 PM
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Summit sells a kit that has about everything you need, including the plastic battery box. Also, you can run the wire as you mentioned other than the two 90 degree bends you need to make near the fire wall. Add insulation with rubber hose, tape etc where ever it comes close to metal that can cut into the insulation .
Second issue is this: If you have a trunk mounted battery and wish to run at a NHRa track, you have to have a battery shutoff switch that will also cut off the ignition. So, an extra circuit need to be added.
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post #6 of 67 (permalink) Old 11-25-2018, 09:52 PM
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Okay, I'm sure I'm going to get some degree of flaming for this one but....

Why do you want to move your battery to a location farthest away from every large-current-draw system except for your amp?
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post #7 of 67 (permalink) Old 11-25-2018, 09:58 PM
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Okay, I'm sure I'm going to get some degree of flaming for this one but....

Why do you want to move your battery to a location farthest away from every large-current-draw system except for your amp?
less weight over front axle (better handling) more weight over rear axle (better Traction)
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post #8 of 67 (permalink) Old 11-25-2018, 10:23 PM
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We use Class K welding cable, usually 1/0, on the race cars. (batteries were not allowed in the engine compartment) It's got a 30AWG strand size, is readily available and fairly inexpensive. You can get it closer to a buck a foot other than McMaster. Battery cable has a different jacket and sometimes a smaller strand size. Into the cabin/cockpit we couldn't use holes due to risk of fire penetration so we used bulkhead lugs when we needed to get inside the cabin for kill switches or when the battery was behind the driver. https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Remot...ctor,2353.html

For the length you're running you won't have voltage drop issues with 1/0 and it's plenty big enough for the current required.
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post #9 of 67 (permalink) Old 11-25-2018, 10:27 PM
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I prefer the 1/0 welding cable, it has more and finer wire strands than the cable marketed as battery cable. The welding cable is a better conductor than battery cable and will have less voltage loss per foot than battery cable.
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post #10 of 67 (permalink) Old 11-25-2018, 10:29 PM
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less weight over front axle (better handling) more weight over rear axle (better Traction)
To gain those advantages you'd need to scale your car and set cross weights and even then it's debatable that most cars (classic or late model) and even more drivers will benefit. Suspension tuning and/or bent parts are going to impact your handling more than just tossing the battery in the trunk. Particularly with the prehistoric suspension designs in the classic Mustangs.

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post #11 of 67 (permalink) Old 11-25-2018, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by vegasloki View Post
To gain those advantages you'd need to scale your car and set cross weights and even then it's debatable that most cars (classic or late model) and even more drivers will benefit. Suspension tuning and/or bent parts are going to impact your handling more than just tossing the battery in the trunk. Particularly with the prehistoric suspension designs in the classic Mustangs.
wonder if Shelby thought of that Seriously though a 50 pound chunk of lead hanging 2' over and above the front axle can't help handling
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post #12 of 67 (permalink) Old 11-25-2018, 10:49 PM
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I prefer the 1/0 welding cable, it has more and finer wire strands than the cable marketed as battery cable. The welding cable is a better conductor than battery cable and will have less voltage loss per foot than battery cable.
For a given gauge it's going to have the same resistance, 1 ohm per mil foot/CSA. The number of strands only has to do with flexibility. The "skin effect" is not relevant to DC circuits
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post #13 of 67 (permalink) Old 11-26-2018, 12:04 AM
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wonder if Shelby thought of that Seriously though a 50 pound chunk of lead hanging 2' over and above the front axle can't help handling
The stock roll center is less than optimal and the adjustments are fairly limited. That's where a lot of that roll and yaw come from. That's what Arning was looking to solve. It causes more grief than the battery location. Moving the battery isn't going to change that geometry. To be fair it was 50 years ago but even back then it wasn't considered the pinnacle of handling but as a price/performance package it was remarkable.

How do we know lopping 50# off that corner doesn't hurt the other three corners more? We don't unless we scale it and measure our crosses. Traction is more of a function of mechanical grip and power transfer with regards to throttle input vs torque. Chucking a 50# brick in your trunk without thinking about it isn't going to necessarily improve your performance.

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post #14 of 67 (permalink) Old 11-26-2018, 12:10 AM
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Originally Posted by vegasloki View Post
The stock roll center is less than optimal and the adjustments are fairly limited. That's where a lot of that roll and yaw come from. That's what Arning was looking to solve. It causes more grief than the battery location. Moving the battery isn't going to change that geometry. To be fair it was 50 years ago but even back then it wasn't considered the pinnacle of handling but as a price/performance package it was remarkable.

How do we know lopping 50# off that corner doesn't hurt the other three corners more? We don't unless we scale it and measure our crosses. Traction is more of a function of mechanical grip and power transfer with regards to throttle input vs torque. Chucking a 50# brick in your trunk without thinking about it isn't going to necessarily improve your performance.
Because common sense tells me so, besides cleans up the engine bay and,I have the UCA drop 1" sway bar 620's ,ECT and a TracLoc


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post #15 of 67 (permalink) Old 11-26-2018, 12:55 AM
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For a given gauge it's going to have the same resistance, 1 ohm per mil foot/CSA. The number of strands only has to do with flexibility. The "skin effect" is not relevant to DC circuits
My bad. I know this and I donít why I said 1 ohm. Itís 10.4 ohms per mil foot/CSA.

As far as ampacity of any given gauge of wire thereís a lot more then just the size. The size does count but other things are just as important. The type of material the insulation is made out of. The ambient temperature, number of wire bundled. In AC circuits itís imperative to have all the wires of a circuit bundled together. Even AC arc welding

Tom

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