LED lights are gonna drive me to the looney bin! - Page 2 - Vintage Mustang Forums
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post #16 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-07-2018, 08:26 PM
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I tried like the dickens to get LED front directional and side markers to work when installed on my 1970 Mach 1. I finally gave up. Back to incandescent and no problems. Seems 70ís are a problem.

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post #17 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-08-2018, 12:53 AM
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I recently converted all of the exterior lights to LED and add sequential brake lights to my Mom's 1965 Fastback. I pulled the instrument bezel and had it resting on the steering column with all of the instruments still wired. I installed a rally pack and a hot lead for a relay switch onto the rear post of the ignition switch. I started experiencing numerous electrical issues where the headlights would flicker and the signals would do weird things. After numerous attempts to troubleshoot, I grounded the instrument bezel via an alligator cable and all my problems were solved. So if you are trying to test the electrical system and your instrument cluster is resting on your column or unscrewed (not grounded), give it a try. Just thought I would throw it out there as knowing this could have saved me about a day of troubelshooting.
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post #18 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-08-2018, 12:11 PM
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Well, if the 66 has a dual TS indicators then he would need two grounded LEDs - I would say.....
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post #19 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-08-2018, 02:39 PM Thread Starter
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So I yanked out the instrument cluster this morning and this is what I found out...

- The cluster to frame ground was fine but I cleaned all connections anyway.
- I ran a separate ground to the turn signal indicator bulbs and it didn’t change anything.
- I cleaned all light sockets and the bezel frame with a dremel wire brush to ensure good socket to cluster ground, no change.

I am at a loss now. I can remove an instrument bulb from the cluster, turn the headlights on, and just with me holding the bulb socket in my hand the LED bulb will dimly glow. It doesn’t take much continuity to make a complete circuit to light these LED bulbs!

And just to clear some things up I have LED’s everywhere in the car except the glove box light and the shifter light. The turn signal switch is new and so is the headlight switch. I even went as far as taking the turn signal switch apart and jumpered each connection, one at a time, to rule out any cross feeding. The grounds at all four light corners were cleaned and either new ground wires run or jumpers run to prove out existing wiring.

I appreciate the ideas to run an incandescent bulb in the circuit somewhere (which is similar to adding a resistor), but I’d like to get it functional without doing that. Something in these old cars is causing this issue I just need to figure out what.

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post #20 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-08-2018, 03:16 PM
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Wow! I don't have a picture but the LED signal indicator light I used but had a ground built-in from the bulb itself - just like LED flasher I used.
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post #21 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-09-2018, 01:13 PM
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You replaced the 1157 bulbs with LEDs, but what? As I'm sure you are aware the 1157 has two incandescent filaments that share a common ground.
Do you know if the 1157 replacement LEDs are bidirectional? This is really two (or more) LEDs that are in parallel but with their polarity reversed so it doesn't matter how they are installed. I can't see why they would be since they are probably in a bayonet style package. You could test for that by connecting 12vdc one way and then reverse the polarity. If it lights in both directions then it is bidirectional. That could begin to explain the screwy operation.

Or...I suppose one or more of the LEDs could have a high reverse current- can you measure mA in both directions?
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post #22 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-10-2018, 02:05 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mach1 Driver View Post
You replaced the 1157 bulbs with LEDs, but what? As I'm sure you are aware the 1157 has two incandescent filaments that share a common ground.
Do you know if the 1157 replacement LEDs are bidirectional? This is really two (or more) LEDs that are in parallel but with their polarity reversed so it doesn't matter how they are installed. I can't see why they would be since they are probably in a bayonet style package. You could test for that by connecting 12vdc one way and then reverse the polarity. If it lights in both directions then it is bidirectional. That could begin to explain the screwy operation.

Or...I suppose one or more of the LEDs could have a high reverse current- can you measure mA in both directions?
Bidirectional they are not (just checked it). I even tried putting + to one "filament" and - to the other (not using the case ground at all) and it just ever so slightly lit a few LED's, but it was barely noticeable. Now the strange observation... I get 0.25A when + is on the bright terminal "filament" and - is on the low "filament", and the bulb base starts to get warm. The LED bulb has a resistor on the low and a diode on the high, I wonder if it needs another diode in series with the resistor or is that a purpose built feature? The bulbs I have pull 0.10A on low and 0.30A on high (my taillight LED's pull 0.85A on high and 0.30A on low, but these are very bright and I'm not having issues with those). Hmmm... might be worth a try to install diode's on the low filament... what do you think?

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post #23 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-10-2018, 02:40 AM Thread Starter
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Crap, based on the circuit simulator I am getting about 30mA of backfeed current. I am too tired to be operating a soldering iron right now but I know what I will be doing tomorrow evening!
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File Type: png LED turn signals.png (43.2 KB, 7 views)

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post #24 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-10-2018, 07:04 AM
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What are your voltmeter readings? Make a chart for all 6 wires for the front sockets with lights on then T/S on left then right bulbs out. Then install the led's and test again. An error will have to show if there is a wiring/switch issue.

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post #25 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-10-2018, 08:38 AM
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The 30 ohm resistors are dropping resistors to set the voltage at a safe level for the LEDs. The 120 ohm resistors are in parallel with the LEDs, shouldn't do anything, but would pull .08A each.

Inserting a diode as you suggested (lets assume it is inserted in the RF Park circuit) would prevent the back flow to the LF Park, but it would also prevent the RF Park from operating under normal conditions.

Any time I try to insert a schematic or picture on this forum I find that I've exceeded the kb limit. It would be much easier to exchange information via email or another forum like 69Stang, or Stangfix. PM me if you want to pursue some other method of communication. BTW, both of those forums have a full car 69 schematic on them (don't confuse it with a wiring diagram). The classics are similar enough to see how most things should work. The park/turn/brake circuits intermingle and make for a difficult diagnosis.

Can I assume that you have a meter that will read mA?

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post #26 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-10-2018, 10:06 AM
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If the front Leds are suspicious, put the rear Leds in the the front to verify as they have no issues.

1969 Mach 1 S code...2nd owner
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post #27 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-10-2018, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gjallen3 View Post
I tried like the dickens to get LED front directional and side markers to work when installed on my 1970 Mach 1. I finally gave up. Back to incandescent and no problems. Seems 70ís are a problem.
I have a solution to the problems with the 1970s. The issue is the side markers are tied to the park lights. I came up with an isolated side marker bulb. With this you can run LEDs.

1970

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http://www.vintageleds.com/
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post #28 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-10-2018, 01:18 PM
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Dave

I have some experience with LED and old mustangs. Why don't you PM me and we can have a call to discuss your issues?

Thank you

Gary


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http://www.vintageleds.com/
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post #29 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-10-2018, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by gtonavy View Post
I have a solution to the problems with the 1970s. The issue is the side markers are tied to the park lights. I came up with an isolated side marker bulb. With this you can run LEDs.

1970

Gary
Interesting, so will it behave like a 70, or like a 69? That is, will the side markers still flash alternately with the turn signals?

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post #30 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-10-2018, 05:41 PM
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What year mustang is this? The 1970 mustang parking / directional signal lighting is unique for only one year. If the headlights or parking lights are on, then the LED marker lights on that side will flash alternately with the turn signals. If the headlights or parking lights are off, then the LED marker lights on that side will flash in unison with the turn signals. 69 mustang side markers don't blink.
OP any response on what car you are working on?
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