Part Deaux, The Keys To Taiwan Saga - Vintage Mustang Forums
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-19-2018, 11:33 PM Thread Starter
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Part Deaux, The Keys To Taiwan Saga

Let's call this Chapter Two in the I May Hold The Keys To Taiwan thread.

Gang, the problem is specific to the DOOR lock key cylinders alone. You may recall I could not get regulation key blank replacements, perfectly cut, to work on locks I had purchased from Mustangs Unlimited. (On a side note, no, I haven't heard back from Linda at MU who may be six feet under at Terlingua now, like both Robert and Paul before her, after reporting my issue to "Purchasing" last week. Spread the word, if you work somewhere that has a "Purchasing" department, do not bother them.)

So, I said to hell with it and ordered an all new set of everything, ignition, trunk, doors, and two different styles of key blanks to have cut for extra's from NPD. Got them and promptly grabbed the ignition cylinder and one of the pre-cut keys from the kit, and the two new blanks, and went to see my lock dude to have them both cut and tested. Done, all good, no problems.

Today I started in replacing the MU driver's side door lock first. Just for kicks I tried one of the newly cut blanks in the new door lock. It would not go into the cylinder more than halfway, same problem as before! Tried the other fresh cut key, same thing! WTF?

All the keys, from the kit and the fresh cut blanks as well work fine in both the ignition and trunk locks. The kit keys of course fit/work in the door cylinders too, just not the fresh cut ones.

Got my Inspector Gadget Spy Glass out for yet another key comparo. The replacement blanks are indeed visibly thicker than the keys that came with the kit. Same issue as with the MU stuff.

I started filing the new keys down, both, and on both sides. No go. Filed some more. No go. Filed again. No go. The fourth time was the charm. Now all the keys work, I have a considerable amount of metal dust on my workbench and two keys that aren't quite as smooth and shiny as they were this morning.

You shouldn't have to do that.

To Rick from NPD, I bought the set that uses just one key for everything, #22050-2C, and key blanks #22053-2 and 22053-2A. I'm sure you would want to know about this.
Just don't call "Purchasing", okay?


Last edited by 4ocious; 12-19-2018 at 11:59 PM.
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-20-2018, 02:06 PM
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Let's call this Chapter Two in the I May Hold The Keys To Taiwan thread.

Gang, the problem is specific to the DOOR lock key cylinders alone. You may recall I could not get regulation key blank replacements, perfectly cut, to work on locks I had purchased from Mustangs Unlimited. (On a side note, no, I haven't heard back from Linda at MU who may be six feet under at Terlingua now, like both Robert and Paul before her, after reporting my issue to "Purchasing" last week. Spread the word, if you work somewhere that has a "Purchasing" department, do not bother them.)

So, I said to hell with it and ordered an all new set of everything, ignition, trunk, doors, and two different styles of key blanks to have cut for extra's from NPD. Got them and promptly grabbed the ignition cylinder and one of the pre-cut keys from the kit, and the two new blanks, and went to see my lock dude to have them both cut and tested. Done, all good, no problems.

Today I started in replacing the MU driver's side door lock first. Just for kicks I tried one of the newly cut blanks in the new door lock. It would not go into the cylinder more than halfway, same problem as before! Tried the other fresh cut key, same thing! WTF?

All the keys, from the kit and the fresh cut blanks as well work fine in both the ignition and trunk locks. The kit keys of course fit/work in the door cylinders too, just not the fresh cut ones.

Got my Inspector Gadget Spy Glass out for yet another key comparo. The replacement blanks are indeed visibly thicker than the keys that came with the kit. Same issue as with the MU stuff.

I started filing the new keys down, both, and on both sides. No go. Filed some more. No go. Filed again. No go. The fourth time was the charm. Now all the keys work, I have a considerable amount of metal dust on my workbench and two keys that aren't quite as smooth and shiny as they were this morning.

You shouldn't have to do that.

To Rick from NPD, I bought the set that uses just one key for everything, #22050-2C, and key blanks #22053-2 and 22053-2A. I'm sure you would want to know about this.
Just don't call "Purchasing", okay?
First off, I'm to blame for some confusion... In part #1 of this journey, someone mentioned our NOS key blanks, which are 65-66 key blanks, and then someone else had questions about 65-66 lock sets, and I got my brain "locked-onto" (no pun intended) 1965-1966 kits and blanks, TOTALLY whiffing on the fact that you're working on a '68.

So... I apologize for that confusion...

And now that I read your latest post, and now that I've gone to our shelves to attempt to plug repro 67-up key blanks into the door-lock-cylinders of 67-69 Performance Years door lock kits, I SEE WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!!

The first kit I opened up, I could only get the key blank to insert about 1/2 inch.

The second kit I opened up, it also resisted at first.. But then with a wiggle and jiggle, the sucker slid all the way in. I went back to the first kit, and no, it wouldn't budge.

So there's a razor's-edge issue here.

Then I got my micrometer and started playing around with measurements, and it began getting weirder. Why? Because the repro key blanks are actually closer in all measurements to original keys, than are the pre-cut keys that are provided in our kits.

The "thicker key" characteristic you found with your blanks, also exists with original Ford keys from my car collection. And also, the two styles of blanks you purchased from us come from two different suppliers, two different manufacturers. Yet they are both almost identical in dimensions, and very much like original.

All I can do at this point is grab some repro key blanks, and send them to Performance Years with some instructions to "figure this out guys". They may need to change their blank source, and that will solve everything..

Rick
NPD
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-20-2018, 02:23 PM
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RIP Linda.

Thanks for updating us, 4ocious, and cheers to Rick for continuing to be the best example for how good and responsive a parts supplier can be.

The anvil of reality.
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-20-2018, 03:03 PM
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Blanks and a letter are shipping to Performance Years today..

You guys would've probably laughed if you could have seen me a couple hours ago sitting indian-style in a warehouse aisle, trying to cram blanks into cylinders, and then measuring keys..

Never a dull moment.

Rick
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-20-2018, 03:18 PM Thread Starter
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And now that I read your latest post, and now that I've gone to our shelves to attempt to plug repro 67-up key blanks into the door-lock-cylinders of 67-69 Performance Years door lock kits, I SEE WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!!

The first kit I opened up, I could only get the key blank to insert about 1/2 inch.

All I can do at this point is grab some repro key blanks, and send them to Performance Years with some instructions to "figure this out guys". They may need to change their blank source, and that will solve everything...

I'm thinking the blanks are fine, all of them. All repop lock cylinders should accept original width keys, the "thicker" ones as you have discovered. Therefore, the problem is too narrow a passage for them to fit in the cylinders being manufactured.
The problem, I believe, is in the cylinders.
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-20-2018, 03:29 PM
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"Therefore, the problem is too narrow a passage for them to fit in the cylinders being manufactured.
The problem, I believe, is in the cylinders."

Bingo.

Looks like "Performance Years" will have to re-tool to make their cylinders to accept Original width/thickness Ford Blanks...

...and that should remedy the issue...

You'd have thought that they would have done this originally when they copied their "Prototype" cylinders before production...

Measure twice...Cut once...lol...

)

Tony K.
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-20-2018, 03:44 PM Thread Starter
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Looks like "Performance Years" will have to re-tool to make their cylinders to accept Original width/thickness Ford Blanks...
Yup, and GypsyR just bought a set that probably includes the culprit cylinders too. Makes you wonder how many are already out there, in use, just laying in wait for someone to order spare key blanks for them that won't fit.

Just to make a point, this is not an issue specific to NPD, although watch and Rick will be the one to solve it. This problem exists at Mustangs Unlimited too, and any other vendor selling those lock cylinders as well.

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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-20-2018, 08:55 PM
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What?! Durnit. I was just dozing off over some plans for a table for my router and I had to get up and do stuff.

As he ran full speed past the door today, the UPS guy threw a box at me and it had my lock sets.
Mine fit fine. As do some uncut "Pony" blanks I picked up somewhere. Also the keys to my F150. What does not is one for an '01 Ford. You can see an extra notch in the side of it but it appears to me that what stops that particular key from going in the door lock is that the reliefs ground into the sides are slightly "shallower" to accommodate the extra center notch. So I'm wondering if it's not the thickness of the keys that are the issue but the quality of workmanship when the side reliefs were ground. I would think differences would be evident with a micrometer.

My keys and locks all work nicely, so no issues for me.

Left to right. The new door/ignition keys, the pony blanks, old F150 generic replacement (also another door key on that ring), and the '01 key made a little differently.

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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-21-2018, 06:22 AM Thread Starter
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What?! My (new) keys and locks all work nicely, so no issues for me.

Some people have all the luck, and apparently I'm not one of 'em.
(Note to self: Avoid casinos.)
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-11-2019, 03:40 PM Thread Starter
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Blanks and a letter are shipping to Performance Years today..

You guys would've probably laughed if you could have seen me a couple hours ago sitting indian-style in a warehouse aisle, trying to cram blanks into cylinders, and then measuring keys..
Rick
NPD
Any word on your NPD end yet?

To observers of this thread; I haven't heard back from Linda at MUSTANGS UNLIMITED (of course I didn't really expect to). I fear calling to follow up because it seems everyone I talk to there suddenly disappears without a trace.

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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-11-2019, 04:23 PM
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Any word on your NPD end yet?
I sent a care-package up to our supplier. They finally received it, and called me and left me a voicemail (Wednesday). I delegated the voicemail to Scott Halseth so that he can sort out the details, because from the sounds of it, it's a bit complicated getting NOS keys and cylinders and repro keys and cylinders all to "jive" with each other, such that it doesn't create ongoing chaos for people who might have NOS or repro cylinders already in their cars.

It's a mess. Scott will work to sort-thru, but I've got no summary or answer for now.

Rick
NPD
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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-16-2019, 06:50 AM Thread Starter
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I sent a care-package up to our supplier. They finally received it, and called me and left me a voicemail (Wednesday). I delegated the voicemail to Scott Halseth so that he can sort out the details, because from the sounds of it, it's a bit complicated getting NOS keys and cylinders and repro keys and cylinders all to "jive" with each other, such that it doesn't create ongoing chaos for people who might have NOS or repro cylinders already in their cars.

It's a mess. Scott will work to sort-thru, but I've got no summary or answer for now.

Rick
NPD
Hey Rick. Any update? I just ordered a couple of things (unrelated) from NPD and was reminded of this ^^^^.

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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-16-2019, 12:23 PM
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Hey Rick. Any update? I just ordered a couple of things (unrelated) from NPD and was reminded of this ^^^^.
There was no real "fix" to be had from PY, we just had to do a better job noting the issue on the product-page.
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