Carb Choices with a stock intake? - Vintage Mustang Forums
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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-03-2019, 09:21 PM Thread Starter
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Carb Choices with a stock intake?

I'm tired of dealing with the carbs on my 67. I've been thru two 2V carbs, then put my 4V stock intake back on this past summer and rebuilt the Holley carb I've had for years. It ran very well this summer for ~ 6 months until I took it out for a drive today. Gas was leaking out the throttle shaft. I suspect dirt in the needle seat. I'm now done with this carb.


What are my choices with a square bore intake, auto trans, 289? I prefer a manual choke.


The engine is completely stock except for the Ford 4V intake and dual exhaust. I'm thinking 500 CFM would be best. Would 600 CFM be OK.


Do the secondaries have to be vacuum?
Is there an issue with the trans kick down? IIRC the kick down is on the throttle rod and had nothing to do with the carb.


It looks like the Summit 4160 would work (except it's 600 CFM and has electric choke.) Any other options out there (besides old Autolite?)


Thanks for your input.


68 GT Vert - J Code (1st car I ever drove in '73, dad bought it in '71)
67 C Code Vert Sports Sprint (1st car I ever bought in '75)
06 Vista Blue with Pony Package (1st Mustang I ever bought new)
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-03-2019, 09:33 PM
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There are quite a few options out there but, frankly, even if you had a new carburetor installed dirt or other foreign objects in the fuel system will have the same effect as they did on your current carb. I suspect you've let the car sit for an extended period of time...

I'd first pull your existing carb, pop it open and see what's inside. If you have a lot of sediment and a buggered needle & seat, replace it and then go track down where the sediment is coming from. If it's a Holley, consider installing the sintered bronze inlet filters for catching the very fine crud.

You may find out that something like a power valve diaphragm or accelerator pump check valve has deteriorated from an ethanol-blend fuel during the extended "rest period" and needs replacement with an "alcohol proof" version.

No sense tossing the baby out with the bath water.
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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-03-2019, 09:45 PM
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IMHO, for a good 'cheap' carb, Summit's own SUM-M08600VS would be great bang-for-the-buck.

It's an upgraded version of a discontinued Holley that was based on the Autolite 4100. (Yep. No kidding.) Made in China, too.

But for all that, it's got annular boosters, uses easy-to-find Holley jets and parts, and by all accounts they work really really well. The old Autolite design was pretty bulletproof, and this keeps that same simplicity. For a street car, they give good economy and crisp throttle response. Vacuum secondaries, and you can get them with or without an electric choke. Unlike the original Autolite you can even adjust the fuel floats just by turning an adjustment outside the carb, and looking through a little glass window to see what the fuel level's at.

There are better all-out racing carbs. And there may even be some better street carbs. But for $300, I don't know of anything new that would do better at either.
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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-03-2019, 09:56 PM
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Living in ATL, Iím not sure you need a choke. I havenít needed one since...ever. Summit also has a 500CFM carb.

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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-03-2019, 10:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodchuck View Post
There are quite a few options out there but, frankly, even if you had a new carburetor installed dirt or other foreign objects in the fuel system will have the same effect as they did on your current carb. I suspect you've let the car sit for an extended period of time...

I'd first pull your existing carb, pop it open and see what's inside. If you have a lot of sediment and a buggered needle & seat, replace it and then go track down where the sediment is coming from. If it's a Holley, consider installing the sintered bronze inlet filters for catching the very fine crud.

You may find out that something like a power valve diaphragm or accelerator pump check valve has deteriorated from an ethanol-blend fuel during the extended "rest period" and needs replacement with an "alcohol proof" version.

No sense tossing the baby out with the bath water.
Yep, the fuel blend these days plays havoc with a lot of things. If fuel is leaking out of the throttle shaft, it is more than likely a float issue. With the engine off, can you see fuel leaking from the vent tube or further down inside the Venturi?

If it is, a careful whack on the fuel bowl (with the wood handle of a good sized screwdriver) can unstick a float.

Pull the Holley, pick up a rebuild kit from AED Carburetors (Summit, Barnett Performance and even Amazon have them) and go through it carefully. Clean and replace everything. Itís an eveningís worth of time.

Post the Holley carburetor list number, and we can suggest the correct kit.

But yes, with an automatic you want no more than 600 cfm and vacuum secondaries.

Holleyís are infinitely tuneable, but darn close out of the box 95% of the time.

The extra filter is a good idea, as would be flushing the gas tank if it hasnít been done in a while. Something is messing with your carbs; they all canít be acting up without cause.

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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-03-2019, 10:00 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodchuck View Post
There are quite a few options out there but, frankly, even if you had a new carburetor installed dirt or other foreign objects in the fuel system will have the same effect as they did on your current carb. I suspect you've let the car sit for an extended period of time...

I'd first pull your existing carb, pop it open and see what's inside. If you have a lot of sediment and a buggered needle & seat, replace it and then go track down where the sediment is coming from. If it's a Holley, consider installing the sintered bronze inlet filters for catching the very fine crud.

You may find out that something like a power valve diaphragm or accelerator pump check valve has deteriorated from an ethanol-blend fuel during the extended "rest period" and needs replacement with an "alcohol proof" version.

No sense tossing the baby out with the bath water.
Carb was rebuilt by me this past summer. It's probably been about 6 weeks since I last drove it. It was sunny and warm, so I drove both cars. 6 weeks is about as long as I go without driving them. I run nothing but ethanol free gas in both cars.


We're getting ready to move and I will need to drive the car about 60 miles to it's new home...I need to get this fixed.


I guess I'll pull it apart....again...and will get a sintered filter. Thanks for the suggestion.


68 GT Vert - J Code (1st car I ever drove in '73, dad bought it in '71)
67 C Code Vert Sports Sprint (1st car I ever bought in '75)
06 Vista Blue with Pony Package (1st Mustang I ever bought new)
MCA #49294 Grayson, GA (Atlanta)

Last edited by daves67ss; 02-03-2019 at 10:09 PM.
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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-03-2019, 10:47 PM
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I'm a fan of Edelbrock carbs set it and forget it,and no gaskets below the fuel line. The Autolite 4100 was great in it's day, but got pricey. The Summit Carb looks good also. As for vacuum secondaries on a stockish engine you might be happier. FWIW I used an Edelbrock 1406 on my 289 it now resides on my GT40P.
Also FWIW I just found one on FB market place for 100 bucks I don't really need another one but for that price I'm thinking hard
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-03-2019, 11:18 PM
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If I could find a Holley with annular boosters for cheap, I'd buy it. I prefer the better atomization!
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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-04-2019, 07:50 PM Thread Starter
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Carb is
DOPF-9510-U
LIST - 4548-S
332


I've determined the correct kit is 37-119.


From digging around on this site, I determined that it's a Ford service part, 4160 and 450 CFM (compared to the 4100 at 480 CFM.) 22 GT (In 2008) said in no way does it compare to the 4100.


68 GT Vert - J Code (1st car I ever drove in '73, dad bought it in '71)
67 C Code Vert Sports Sprint (1st car I ever bought in '75)
06 Vista Blue with Pony Package (1st Mustang I ever bought new)
MCA #49294 Grayson, GA (Atlanta)
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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-04-2019, 08:07 PM
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If I could find a Holley with annular boosters for cheap, I'd buy it. I prefer the better atomization!
The Motorcraft 4180 used by Ford in the mid 80ís on Mustangs and trucks might fit the bill. 585 CFM, annual primary boosters, 4 corner idle mixture screws. They work great. The down side. As much as they look like a Holley, as Holley built them, almost nothing will interchange. Things like the secondary vacuum diagram, rear metering plate, jets and accelerator pump and pump cam. Thatís about it. Not even the float bowls will or primary metering block or throttle plate. But they work nice.
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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-04-2019, 08:20 PM
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I bought the Summit 500 cfm carb and it is great! That being said, I also replaced my tank and fuel filter. The carburetor is ridiculously easy to adjust.
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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-04-2019, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daves67ss View Post
Carb is
DOPF-9510-U
LIST - 4548-S
332


I've determined the correct kit is 37-119.


From digging around on this site, I determined that it's a Ford service part, 4160 and 450 CFM (compared to the 4100 at 480 CFM.) 22 GT (In 2008) said in no way does it compare to the 4100.

A little small, but should work very nicely when everything is correct... It should provide very good throttle response along with good fuel economy if you can keep your foot out of the secondaries.

Consider the AED Kit. I like the AED Carb rebuilt kits, as they come with better gaskets, new idle mixture screws and vacuum secondary diaphragms... Add a set of glass sight plugs and a good filter, and you'll be back in business.

AED Performance Rebuild Kit Vacuum Secondary Part# 4160: https://www.amazon.com/AED-Performan.../dp/B00GXFU9AW

Make sure the surfaces are flat, the parts and passages are clean and the floats float properly (as in, not damaged, fuel logged or full of fuel).

Brass floats can leak, and Nitrophyl floats have a certain weight to them. If they are heavy, they need to be replaced.

I hope this helps...

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460 / C6 / 9"
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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-04-2019, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by daves67ss View Post
Carb is
DOPF-9510-U
LIST - 4548-S
332
.
I have this same carb and really like it. Small equals more velocity=better atomizing=great off idle gitty up.
Its 45+ years old now so new needles would be a good idea. I read some good things lately about using warm SimpleGreen as a safe and effective cleaner.

Do you have an opinion on the secondaries opening up and can you feel or sense yours as they open?
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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-05-2019, 09:38 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 1ofAMillion+ View Post
I have this same carb and really like it. Small equals more velocity=better atomizing=great off idle gitty up.
Its 45+ years old now so new needles would be a good idea. I read some good things lately about using warm SimpleGreen as a safe and effective cleaner.

Do you have an opinion on the secondaries opening up and can you feel or sense yours as they open?


I've been told that you shouldn't feel the change when the secondary's open if everything is set properly. I do not "feel" when the kick in. I can tell you there is a big difference when swapping from a 2V to a 4V carb without changing anything else.


It does have great throttle response at low RPM. I really don't have the need for speed or much WOT driving....long story from many years ago when we were stupid.


I have a sintered bronze filter in hand and the Holley rebuild kit should arrive by the weekend.


I rebuilt this carb about a year ago (after sitting on the shelf for ~ 15 years and meticulously cleaned it and made sure all the mating surfaces were flat. The floats appeared to be in good shape. I most recently drove the car ~ 6 weeks ago and it ran great. It changed abruptly this weekend. I'm thinking stuck float.


I had the clear plugs, but they broke when I tied to remove them. Was afraid of messing up the threads, so just bought new bowls (nice that you can buy just about any piece you need for Holley.)


More to follow....


68 GT Vert - J Code (1st car I ever drove in '73, dad bought it in '71)
67 C Code Vert Sports Sprint (1st car I ever bought in '75)
06 Vista Blue with Pony Package (1st Mustang I ever bought new)
MCA #49294 Grayson, GA (Atlanta)
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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-06-2019, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daves67ss View Post
Carb is
DOPF-9510-U
LIST - 4548-S
332


I've determined the correct kit is 37-119.


From digging around on this site, I determined that it's a Ford service part, 4160 and 450 CFM (compared to the 4100 at 480 CFM.) 22 GT (In 2008) said in no way does it compare to the 4100.
The 4150's and 4160's are both in the Ford Shop Manuals as stock for the cars... and I'm pretty sure they're both 600cfm.

69 Convertible, 351W, T5, E-Brock Performer 351-W intake, Performer Plus cam, Holley 4160, power assist, dual exhaust, 4-wheel manual drums.
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