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post #16 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-04-2019, 11:05 AM Thread Starter
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Hi

Just waiting on parts when I came across this in Mustang 360

"" This one gets us in trouble more times than not. The pink resistor wire to your Mustang’s ignition coil is designed to work with the stock Autolite or Motorcraft ignition coil and points. If you are running an aftermarket ignition coil of any kind, ascertain what the required resistance is. PerTronix’s Ignitor module, as one example, is not happy if it gets its power via this pink resistor wire, which limits power. You must bypass this pink lead (behind the instrument cluster) and get power straight from the green and red lead. This is switched ignition power to the ignition coil.""

Why does not PerTronix tell you this. Thought other should know.
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post #17 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-04-2019, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by oscarnielsen View Post
Hi

Just waiting on parts when I came across this in Mustang 360

"" This one gets us in trouble more times than not. The pink resistor wire to your Mustang’s ignition coil is designed to work with the stock Autolite or Motorcraft ignition coil and points. If you are running an aftermarket ignition coil of any kind, ascertain what the required resistance is. PerTronix’s Ignitor module, as one example, is not happy if it gets its power via this pink resistor wire, which limits power. You must bypass this pink lead (behind the instrument cluster) and get power straight from the green and red lead. This is switched ignition power to the ignition coil.""

Why does not PerTronix tell you this. Thought other should know.
Based on their instructions for the Ignitor 1, it suggests a switched 12V power source for the red lead. When I added mine (years ago), I took this to heart and sourced a standalone 12V source.

KenA..
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post #18 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-04-2019, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by oscarnielsen View Post
Morning

Managed to get a coil from a run motor just to see if that was the issue. NO not the issue, same results.

Key ON position - positive side coil has power
Key START position - negative side coil NO power
(ENGINE CRANKING)

Replaced friend's coil back in his car, runs great. New coil came in replaced it anyway the other coil was the original. (can always use a spare) Points and condenser arrival later to day.

In reading an very old Mustang Monthly Aug 2010 " the guide to troubleshooting" it stated the ignition switch and/or resistor wire. Does anyone know about this resistor wire.

Will keep you posted.

"Does anyone know about this resistor wire."

The resistor wire is a lead (pink/rose colored) circuit between the ignition switch and the coil. When one starts the engine (ignition SW to START) the ignition/starter circuit supplies 12Vs to the coil for maximum power source, once the engine fires and running the ignition switch returns to "RUN". In this position the resistor wire is engaged and allows only 7-9 volts (sorry, l forget exact Vs). Anyway, the take-away is the reduced voltage increases point life together with the condenser. The Pertonic units require a full 12Vs full-time. In the "RUN" circuit it would not receive a full 12Vs. Therefore, the reason for a standalone switched 12Vs.
Hope this helps.

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post #19 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-04-2019, 02:23 PM
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You don't actually need a remote starter for an old Ford (they are nice to have though). Just turn the key on and then go jump power between the battery terminal and first (left) small connector on the solenoid. It does tend to spark and arc a bit when you do it which will take a small bite out of whatever you are using (Old damaged screwdriver or something, NOT the blade of your Old Timer pocket knife.) In any case, no worries about those sparks and things when you go all professional with a remote starter.

Test when cranking to make sure the coil positive post is getting 12 volts, or close to it. If yes, then it sounds like you've done a pretty good job of covering the bases so far before condemning the Pertronix. Sudden and unexplained failure is one thing people don't like about such "black box" ignition setups. One bright side of points is that when you have an issue you can often see and find it. The contacts were dirty/damaged/worn. A screw loosened up. Stuff like that. So at least you have the satisfaction (sometimes) of going "aha!". Versus basically swapping one thingy for another thingy and seeing if the new one works.
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post #20 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 11:43 AM Thread Starter
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Morning

Well guy here's the latest from the far north:

Removed the Pertonic Unit
Changed: coil ( a tested good one )
put back in a set of points and condenser (set up properly as per ford manual)

All I get is Key On - power at the + side of coil
Key Start (cranking) - power both side of coil - and +

NO Spark up the coil wire to the Dizzy.

kenash my question is: can I run a straight 14 g wire from the ignition switch to the coil and still use points/condenser until I figure out a new system.

Gypsyp I bought the remote start and it does not appear to work, could this hold issue be the solenoid?

Thanks guys: I will be starting all over again today checking everything and replacing the resistor wire: Does anyone know how to properly check the ignition switch?

Thanks again
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post #21 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 02:17 PM
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You need to use the resistor wire to power points or you'll burn them up.

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post #22 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 02:34 PM
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Hmmm. Look at your starter solenoid. It should have two small studs for small wires. The one closest to the battery is the one that has the "crank engine" signal from the ignition switch. That's the one you jump with a screwdriver or hook your remote starter to. To use the remote starter go ahead and remove the wire that's on there, as it's in your way and you are bypassing it anyway.

The other small connection has one function. It sends a full 12 volts to the ignition coil when the engine is being turned over and at no other time. So according to the factory, it IS safe to send a straight 12 volts to the coil. At least temporarily, right? So yes indeed, for testing purposes (or car theft) you can run a wire directly from the positive battery cable to the positive side of the coil. Keep an eye on the coil. It gets warm normally with the ignition on but if it starts getting so hot it's uncomfortable to touch with bare fingers then it's time to take a break and let it cool off.

One thing you can do with points is check for spark AT the points. Take the distributor cap off and rotate the engine until the points are closed. Then with the key on (or your Gone In 60 Seconds hot wire installed) use a small screwdriver to carefully open the points and you should see a spark at the contacts. It can shock you a bit so make sure you have an insulated handled screwdriver. If no spark then either you have no power from the negative side of the coil to them or even though they might look closed, they aren't. I've seen both problems and more. Once the fixed side of the points wasn't grounded. Once a condenser was insulated at the stud it's wire was to supposed to connect to by a plastic washer in the wrong location. Stuff happens.
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post #23 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 04:41 PM Thread Starter
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I feel like a dog chasing its tail.

Just can't get it to work.
So instead of cutting the Red Grn wire just down from the ignition switch and splicing in a new wire running it thru the firewall and connecting it to the + on the coil. I rigged up a 10ft wire with alligator clips and clip the + post on the coil and the Red Grn post on the ignition switch. RESULT the engine started turning over with the key in the ON position -- NO SPARK to the Dizzy

66ryan -I have read that, but the wire must be bypass often, I have never seen/heard of a resistor wire for sale.(I could be/hope I am wrong on that)

GypsyR - I will give your instructions a shot in the morning

Thanks again " think its time for a beer, its Fri and my mind is all wired out"
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post #24 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oscarnielsen View Post
I feel like a dog chasing its tail.

Just can't get it to work.
So instead of cutting the Red Grn wire just down from the ignition switch and splicing in a new wire running it thru the firewall and connecting it to the + on the coil. I rigged up a 10ft wire with alligator clips and clip the + post on the coil and the Red Grn post on the ignition switch. RESULT the engine started turning over with the key in the ON position -- NO SPARK to the Dizzy

66ryan -I have read that, but the wire must be bypass often, I have never seen/heard of a resistor wire for sale.(I could be/hope I am wrong on that)

GypsyR - I will give your instructions a shot in the morning

Thanks again " think its time for a beer, its Fri and my mind is all wired out"

This part makes me wonder if you have the 2 little wires on the solenoid crossed. Can I talk to you about HEI?
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post #25 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 06:59 PM
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Found this at Mustang Shop San Diego https://mustang-shop.com/2015/11/11/...ring-mistakes/

#9 on the list looks interesting.

66 Mustang Convertible
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post #26 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-07-2019, 11:12 AM Thread Starter
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Morning

jgrote - by all mean talk to me about HEI, I need all the info I can gather.

GypsyR - grand childs go back to parents today, I'll will get on your idea soon.

RayTada - that is interesting, I used the Pertonic system for 2 yrs (about 1500 miles)did not do a by pass and no issues. In fact friends drove the car a stated that the old 289 still had "good get up and go" Maybe it just took time for things happen.

Well today is another day, I will keep u guys posted. Thanks again
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post #27 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-07-2019, 12:45 PM
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Thumbs Up Walk Through

I think there's some confusion so I'll try to walk you through the check,

The first thing we will do is take your ignition switch completely out of the equation
Here we see my ignition set up. You can see the positive and negative terminals on the coil. The only wire running to the positive is the wire coming from the ignition switch. You may have a bolted connection here if the pigtail was ever replaced. Remove this wire so we can isolate the ignition system



Here you can see my finger pointing to the isolated positive terminal


Next lets make sure our lead coming off of the coil is set up somewhere where it can arc to a good ground. For me that was the water neck sticking out of the manifold. You can see the gap between it and the nice bare metal neck so this will be a good position to observe spark. Plus I don't have to hold it.


Next lets look how we will turn the motor over from under the hood. Here we see my remote starter button


Here you can see the S terminal and positive cable coming of the battery are what I am using. When I hit the button, the motor will turn.


Alternatively, this is the screwdriver method. If you don't have your remote starter, this is easy if your battery cable position allows. Actually i'm going to change my cable position because this just made me realize how easily you could steal my car.....


Next we will run a power wire to power our coil. What we are doing will tell us if the issue lies somewhere in the ignition components themselves. That's coil, points, rotor, cap, or coil wire. If we get spark, all these are good. If not, we need to look at these points. I took some length of wire and stripped the ends. If you have some alligator clips, that would work great for this.


I wrapped one around the positive terminal nice and tight


And the other I shoved into the positive battery terminal


Now use a method to turn the motor over. you should see nice sparks. Make sure the gap between the coil lead and a good ground is not too extensive but also not directly touching anything.

Here's a video I threw together for you since I was right there anyway.

On a side note, this is too easy to steal. I'm aware now

Anyway. Follow these steps, report back and we will troubleshoot from there.
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Last edited by Scarlet-302; 04-07-2019 at 12:49 PM.
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post #28 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-08-2019, 04:07 PM Thread Starter
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Good? Day

Well GypsyR / Scarlet 302: I carried out your instructions to the letter NO Spark. However, when following the pics in Scarlet302 at the end I took a wire from the - coil and scratched a manifold bold not only did I get and spark at the coil wire she fired(did not catch those)

GypsyR: I could not see a spark when separating the point, however, the test light indicates power going to the points.
Note: key in ON position and both - and + post light up test light. I thought only the + should have power and when the key is turned to start then - post gets power.

I await your next set of test methods, Im totally out of ideas.
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post #29 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-08-2019, 05:40 PM
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If you followed the instructions then we have an issue with your coil, points, rotor,cap, or coil wire. Your saying that you ran a wire from the negative side of the coil and grounded/ungrounded it manual and was able to get the coil wire to produce Sparks correct? If that's the case then what you were doing was mimicing the points operation. If grounding and ungrounding the negative side of the coil manually produced Sparks for you then I'm suspecting something is up with your points/distributor. You say you have power at the points, but yet you don't get spark. I'm suspecting your points are not grounding for some reason. Disconnected the battery, rotate the engine so the points are closed (make sure the points actually are closing), with the points closed disconnect the negative wire coming from the distributor to the coil. Run a continuity test between the negative wire and the distributor body. This is best done with a multimeter set to continuity or ohm reading. With points closed you should see continuity between the negative wire and the distributor body (ground). If not, your points aren't being allowed to ground at all and that would explain the no spark. If this confuses you let me know and when I get home from work I'll throw together some more photos for you
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post #30 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-08-2019, 06:43 PM Thread Starter
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Hi

Scarlet 302

I was doing ok until you got to and everything was spot on until you stated "run a continuity test" .

Thank you for your time and patience.
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