Dreaded over heating topic again...I know guys sorry - Page 2 - Vintage Mustang Forums
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post #16 of 152 (permalink) Old 04-25-2019, 11:41 PM
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What is a Flotek high flow pump? Assume you mean FloKooler water pump.
Don't care for those personally. A cast iron factory pump and factory (closed)
impeller would have been just fine.... But that's not your actually problem.
You answered your own question actually- you're probably not getting enough
air flow through the radiator core and condenser core. (I don't care for aluminum
radiators either, BTW. Too much other stuff has to be changed for them to work
correctly. And yes I have been there..... with a $700 custom Fluidyne no less)

Air flow. Probably a puller arrangement if you can fit one. That should do it.

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post #17 of 152 (permalink) Old 04-25-2019, 11:58 PM Thread Starter
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@GT289 yes I meant Flokooler sorry I was writing off the top of my head and confused the name. And there is no cast iron pump for my engine. It's an early 65 289. It came from the factory with the aluminum pump, no back plate. It's the same pump used on the 289 HiPo clear into 67. That pump had a cast impeller with 6 vanes. I had a parts store pump on it with a stamped star shaped impeller. The Flokooler is real similar to the original. (Which I no longer have). My parts store pump literally came apart on me two weeks ago. So I replaced it with the flokooler. Just curious by what you mean has to be changed to make an aluminum radiator work. I had a three row copper radiator on it until about 6 months ago, and it never cooled. I have seen cooler temps since adding it. Just with the AC added it doesn't seem to be enough.
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post #18 of 152 (permalink) Old 04-26-2019, 12:03 AM
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I have an aftermarket mechanical guage installed on the car. And I have used laser temp gun to verify temps on the car. The fan clutch is only 6 months old. When I spin it by hand when the car is off it spins one to two times and stops. It's moving air at idle just not enough. I do notice that it seams to spin the same wether it's hot or cold so maybe it's not working correctly.
When you spin it it should ONLY turn less than once unless you really reefed on it.

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post #19 of 152 (permalink) Old 04-26-2019, 12:04 AM
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When I spin my clutch fan by hand it doesn't make 1 full turn. I got a 6 blade mechanical fan to go with it too. It moves some air. It might turn a couple of fan blades is all. I am by no means a clutch fan expert but I would suspect that if you can spin the clutch fan around 2 turns by hand that the clutch has seen better days or it was BOTB.


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post #20 of 152 (permalink) Old 04-26-2019, 12:34 AM
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I had this identical problem on my car many years ago and then I splurged on a Griffin aluminum radiator with electric fan and my car has never been above 195 since.
Just looking at your engine bay photo maybe it's not the car you are referring to, but you don't have A/C, PS? MT or Auto?
While that is an old photo and much has changed since that pic, I do not have PS or AC, so I guess in that sense it’s not EXACTLY identical, but close. I would say my issues were eerily similar and a nice Griffin radiator with electric fan fixed all my problems.

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post #21 of 152 (permalink) Old 04-26-2019, 01:22 AM Thread Starter
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I am cranking on the fan pretty hard. It spins one turn. Starts the second and stops. If anything the clutch is locked open as it's spins fast from cold to hot. I never can see or hear a difference..but it is moving lots of air. I may get a new one just in case.
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post #22 of 152 (permalink) Old 04-26-2019, 02:02 AM
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I do not have PS or AC, so I guess in that sense itís not EXACTLY identical, but close.
It's not the same. The pumps increase the load on the engine. In 67 on the cars that had PS, AC and smog pump at the same time there was an issue where the cars could overheat. To solve this they added a high vacuum line to the distributor that fed from the manifold. At about 230* the timing advanced due to the high vac. That turned the engine at a higher RPM to drive the water pump more. It was a bit of a Band-Aid but it worked. The point is on the stock engines more pumps can cause more issues.

The duty cycle of his pump loads (particularly the AC) are causing the strain. And he doesn't have a smog pump. The symptoms of having the AC on at a stop and rising temps indicates an air flow issue under load at idle. Sounds like his fan clutch may not be engaging properly. You guys may have had the same symptoms but perhaps different issues causing it. Your configuration is different enough that a direct comparison may not be the most accurate method to diagnose the issue. He doesn't overheat unless the AC is on. You don't have AC. It doesn't get anymore different than that. The cars are engineered in a stock config in the low 200s. If he gets it 215-225 full tilt he's good to go. The fact he was over 230 and hit 235 is the issue. If he can solve the issue by confirming the fan clutch is properly working without buying another radiator and wiring in an electric fan he's ahead of the game. Otherwise it's just parts darts.

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post #23 of 152 (permalink) Old 04-26-2019, 11:27 AM
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@Woodchuck manual transmission and ported vacuum
Try switching to manifold vacuum. My '68 has the thermal switch ("distributor vacuum control valve") that changes the vacuum advance from ported to manifold above a certain temperature. This advances the ignition timing at idle which does two things. First it increases the idle speed to increase the water flow rate. Second, the earlier ignition results in better combustion. Remember, the ported vacuum set up was done for emissions with the later timing sending hot but un-burned gas into the manifold where it was greeted with additional air from the smog pump for complete combustion.

The biggest change I've ever seen in any vehicle was a larger radiator. The 67-68 radiators are wider and that might be your eventual solution.
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post #24 of 152 (permalink) Old 04-26-2019, 12:32 PM
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Without a shroud that actually forces air to come through the fan and radiator, you might as well be putting pinwheels on your bumper to cool things, especially when the A/C is on.

If it doesn't overheat when moving, but it does when sitting still, I think you have your answer.

If it overheats while moving, then your issue is likely something to do with timing, or possibly a vacuum leak. 18 degrees initial does sound a little high!
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post #25 of 152 (permalink) Old 04-26-2019, 01:06 PM Thread Starter
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I am running on the 10L side of the reluctor arm of the distributor. So I am already at 18 BTDC. If I go to the manifold vacuum I am concerned that I would run to much advance at idle. But I may switch it over and see what happens. I am probably going to get a new clutch and see if that makes a difference. I have seen people talk about an HD clutch vs a standard duty but can't seem to locate one online that is for my application. If anyone has that info I would appreciate it.
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post #26 of 152 (permalink) Old 04-26-2019, 01:08 PM Thread Starter
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Without a shroud that actually forces air to come through the fan and radiator, you might as well be putting pinwheels on your bumper to cool things, especially when the A/C is on.
I am running a shroud. I put that in the very first post.
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post #27 of 152 (permalink) Old 04-26-2019, 02:01 PM
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I am running a shroud. I put that in the very first post.
Not speaking for him, but he could have meant that a shroud in and of itself is of no use if it's not correct for the application. It may do nothing or even make things worse.

Take a look at this:

Installation Guide | ACS

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post #28 of 152 (permalink) Old 04-26-2019, 06:53 PM
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Sorry, PA - I should've been more clear. Not all shrouds are created equal. The early pre '67 Mustang shrouds with a big gap there at the radiator, that look like a little steel strip held on with some brackets? It's a 'shroud', but it's not a SHROUD.

I saw that you mentioned you're running one, but I don't know what you have! Maybe it *IS* a good shroud, but if it's not, this could definitely be a culprit. Being able to suck air from the hot engine side of things means your fan might just be thrashing hot air around, without forcing it through the air conditioning coils and radiator.

It's important to have one that makes a good seal with the radiator, and forces circulation.

Hope this helps!
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post #29 of 152 (permalink) Old 04-26-2019, 07:12 PM Thread Starter
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No worries. I am not running an early shroud. I am actually running one that I fabricated myself. No gaps but it is probably a little wide as it covers most of the fan. That being said by installing the shroud I noticed a decrease in temperatures then before I was running it. So it is working. I actually took the advice of a couple of others in here and moved to manifold vacuum. It bumped my idle up as well as smoothed it out a little. No AC temps are stable at about 210. With AC on it stayed at 225 for about 20 minutes. Of course it was only 87 today. It's going to get warmer and I still think I need to move more air and when I can will get a new clutch for the fan, and if that doesn't work I may install a pusher from the front to supplement.
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post #30 of 152 (permalink) Old 04-26-2019, 07:45 PM
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Fan shroud should only cover 1/2 of fan blades. Maybe you should step up to 24 inch radiator and mod the core support, but as a last resort. What you have should cool it. When we hit 102-105* this summer you will need to do something to keep daily driving it. The Taurus electric fan fits a 20 inch radiator perfectly. Might have to hit one of the junkyards on the south side.


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