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post #1 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-22-2019, 06:18 PM Thread Starter
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C4 adventures

Hello,
I was doing a quick visual inspection of the transmission since I had it out and need to re-seal the front pump / input seal. (after initial motor startup and cam break-in, the transmission started leaking a lot out through the bellhousing)

Everything in here seems to be clean if not new, previous owner had installed a B&M Transkit and replace seals / filter but then it sat for like 8 years so maybe that's why it is leaking so bad.

So, 3 quick questions:
1.) What the part circled in blue and where does it go and in what direction? I saw it on my table after I pulled the pump and valve body. I see it in the picture for shift kits so probably something to do with that, but I haven't even separated the valve body (nor was I planning to). I have looked and looked across the web to no avail.
2.) I also am seeking a seal kit and found this on ebay, any issues? It looks like the right square cut o-ring for the pump. https://www.ebay.com/itm/COMPLETE-Ex...s/141862628929
3.) how much play should there be between the converter hub and the bushing. I can wiggle it around a fair bit. Maybe I need to find bushings front and back? any good sources? Curious if I can use harbor freight tool for driving out and in the new one or better take to a shop.

The thing was shifting fine on my test drive 1-2-3 neutral reverse park until I ran low on fluid just as I was pulling into the garage.

Because I am a trusting idiot, I am out $600 due to a craigslist scammer who was going to rebuild the thing but at this point I'm just going to try to fix the leak and get it back together since I ultimately want an overdrive.

Thanks !!
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post #2 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-22-2019, 06:24 PM
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Unfortunately, I can't answer your first and third question. But, I can answer your 2nd! The kit itself looks fine to me! Seems to have everything you would need.

The more you work on something, the more familiar you become with it.

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post #3 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-22-2019, 08:45 PM
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That's a version of the "anti-drainback valve" that goes just under the filter.

That kit looks fine and a good price.

Replacing the front pump bushing is standard procedure in rebuild shops. Up to you. There will be play in the fit, it's not something you can really judge by eye and inexperienced hand. Bushings are cheap but the correct style drivers are not. Many folks opt to a have a local shop swap theirs for them even though they do the rest of the work themselves.
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post #4 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-22-2019, 10:47 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the guidance. Agree will have shop do the bushings. Weird that check valve pin was floating around somewhere I didn’t yet pull the filter from the valve body, something not right there, just pulled the valve body off the case. I ordered that seal kit.
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post #5 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-29-2019, 03:07 PM Thread Starter
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Ok that part turned out to be something called a converter balooning control plug that slips into an orifice on the pump, in case this ever comes up. Must have come with the shift kit. As I can tell, it’s probably unnecessary for a driver.

I did borrow a tool and got the bushings and seals replaced pretty easy. I have all sorts of other seals and gaskets from the kit but no other leaks so am contemplating not tearing this thing further apart at this stage. Maybe time to get this back together for another try. Thanks!
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post #6 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-05-2019, 06:23 PM Thread Starter
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So I was doing some inspection and found that in the forward clutch, the deepest friction which meets that inner pressure plate is toast, no friction material left. Maybe since it had sat (potentially dry) for 10 years, that the initial startup and drive fried it so now that side of the friction is bare metal and the inner pressure plate in that clutch has some fine grooves. This pressure plate is turning out to be difficult to find, one option on Ebay which I may just buy, it is relatively cheap but not entirely sure if it's the right one. So couple questions:

1.) For you transmission experts, could I alternatively take that pressure plate to a tranny shop or machine shop and have them machine/polish it up a bit so it is smooth? I expect this might lead to a bit of a clearance problem (too loose) in that clutch assembly which I might have to offset with a thicker steel or two. Then I replace all 5 frictions and check how it stacks together?

2.) Hi/Rev clutch clearance is at .044 (with waffle frictions, slightly tighter than the .05 - .071 range I looked up) ok or a problem?

3.) Also bought a kit of new thrust washers since one is mangled (my doing) and one is missing a locator tab, I fear trying to figure out how to measure end play I don't have a dial gauge indicator thingy, any way to do with a feeler gauge?

Maybe I'm in over my head but other than this I'm thinking I can get this thing back together same way I took it apart. But if it blows up or leaks all over the place I'm sunk for a while $$$

Thanks!
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post #7 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-05-2019, 11:30 PM
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Harbor freight has that clamp on gauge to measure end play. 20 bucks or so. If you are this close, you might as well go all the way thru it to have a great trans. Buy the bad shoe video, it will walk you thru it. Replace fibers and steels that need it. Find your local trans supply place, they may have some used stuff. Steels and fibers are cheap. Sometimes you will need fatter snap rings as the after market stuff seems to be a little thinner than factory stuff. I am in south Texas and use Nogalitos gear in San Antonio. They’ve got everything I’ve needed for C4s and AODs. Stay within published tolerances. 44 is too tight. Not sure what will happen, but I follow what Ken Collins says as gospel (he’s the badshoe guy). Buy new steels, don’t modify.Fill out your bio, and list your location, you may have a VMF trans guru nearby.
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post #8 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-05-2019, 11:38 PM
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https://www.harborfreight.com/clampi...tor-63656.html

Bad Shoe Productions How To Video Series - Ford Transmissions & Rears

https://www.ngparts.net
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post #9 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-06-2019, 12:24 AM
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Green Giant, I don't know where you live, but if it's of any help, I live near Wichita KS - and I have an old '66 C4 (without bellhousing) in my garage. I got it used, and it's not very clean. I've never used it. It's been in my garage for a long, long time, and it's been warm and dry. If yours is toast and you need one cheap (even if it's just for the parts), let me know. It's possible that all of this transmission's bits are in pristine condition, though I would sure not use it without at least taking a look inside. The fluid that ran out when I dragged it out last time was a nice deep burgundy, with no scent of 'burnt', so that's a good sign.

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post #10 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-09-2019, 11:52 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks I'm in Seattle. I think this tranny is more than salvageable its sparkling inside. I found a dude in Oregon sending me the pressure plate and found all the frictions and thrust washers I needed so will have some fun putting it back together this week when the parts arrive. The more I work with this the easier it seems so think I will be fine. I really appreciate the kind offers and advice!
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post #11 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-14-2019, 02:23 PM Thread Starter
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Alright, quick update. Got all the parts and attempted re-assembly last night. Did pretty well all told, my clutch pack clearance are near perfect and replacing all the thrust washers as I go along.

I had just a little pitting on the one way clutch inner race that I polished lightly with some 400 grit, seemed to polish up nicely.

One snag, I'm joining the input shell to the fully sandwiched clutches and hi reverse drum and can't for the life of me get the shell to fully seat into those little tabs in the high reverse drum. I can only get them about half way into the slots. From what I've seen these need to fully key into eachother. There is what looks like a little race sliding around inside the planet that has a lip on it, maybe that is hanging me up, open for any suggestions as I'm stuck.
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post #12 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-14-2019, 04:44 PM Thread Starter
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First picture shows how far this is away from fully seating. It does seat just fine without the planetary installed inside. One thing I noticed, that little washer in the center of the planetary has 3 components, an inner race, an actual needle bearing setup and the top race with the lip. Was this stock? It's possible the previous owner upgraded this but the overall setup is thicker preventing the input shell from seating fully onto that flange... Grasping at straws.
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post #13 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-14-2019, 08:09 PM
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You're right about one thing, that's NOT fully engaged in picture one.
I don't have a picture of a C4's innards in my head but I can maybe make a generic guess or two. Number one problem that causes this is when you don't engage ALL the frictions in a drum. You can usually spot this by engaging then as best you can and then carefully lifting the drive part straight up and out. Then look at the stack of friction teeth and you should be able to see them all lines up nice and pretty except for that one difficult [email protected] all the way at the bottom.

Second thought applies to picture two. See how that bearing race has a protruding inner lip. It's very easy to flip such a bearing over to where the part that has clearance for that lip is on the wrong side. That will either cause a "stack" problem like you have now or it gets forced together. The ones that get forced usually crack right away but don't really become a problem until it's all back in the car and then little shards of metal and Torrington rollers start scattering everywhere and your endplay suddenly gets excessive.
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post #14 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-14-2019, 08:27 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks, I'm with you. I've applied some "indicator" goop to the thrust surfaces and slide down through the frictions to see if I'm making full contact with the thrust and the end of the line and I am and they are all lined up nice and pretty like you say when I carefully remove.

Tried to pull that washer with the lip out but can't seem to since those planet gears come into that space enough it doesn't seem removable. There is a chamfer on the gear inside the shell and the exploded view of the tranny kind of shows the lip facing out but who knows.

I always appreciate you helping out here, first time on this stuff for me, thanks!
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post #15 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-14-2019, 10:30 PM
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Hard for me to do without being there or having a C4 by my right hand. I'm not a photographic memory type. It's got to be there. One of the thrust washers swapped with another, upside down, or something. In such situations I tell myself "Stop trying to put it together the way you THINK it goes and figure out how it actually does go."
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