Starter motor weirdness - Page 2 - Vintage Mustang Forums
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post #16 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-24-2019, 10:17 PM
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I don’t think the starter cares how many teeth are on the flywheel.

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Patrick
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post #17 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-24-2019, 10:35 PM Thread Starter
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I don’t think the starter cares how many teeth are on the flywheel.
Agreed, I think hemikiller nailed the facts perfectly. What engine/transmission/year mustang do you have Patrick? Getting ready to order the 1806.

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1965 Fastback owned since 1986 - original 289 block & heads - bored .030 over - ported & polished heads - triple angle valve job - performer RPM intake and cam - 10:1 compression - forged pistons - 600cfm holley 4150 - ford full length headers - 4 speed toploader - original 8 inch rear with 3.73 LSD - wilwood front disc brake conversion - upgraded suspension lowered 1 inch - welded sub-frame connectors - 3 row radiator - monte carlo bar - export brace - complete MSD ignition
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post #18 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-24-2019, 10:41 PM
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‘66 289 (Mex 302 block) and Toploader. Previously with a stock Ford aluminum bellhousing, PRW SFI billet flywheel, and a stock Ford auto starter. Now with a QuickTime bellhousing, Centerforce lightweight flywheel, and PA 1806 auto starter.

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post #19 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-24-2019, 10:51 PM
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‘66 289 (Mex 302 block) and Toploader. Previously with a stock Ford aluminum bellhousing, PRW SFI billet flywheel, and a stock Ford auto starter. Now with a QuickTime bellhousing, Centerforce lightweight flywheel, and PA 1806 auto starter.
Hey Big Man, let me hold a dollar...

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post #20 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-24-2019, 11:36 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by patrickstapler View Post
‘66 289 (Mex 302 block) and Toploader. Previously with a stock Ford aluminum bellhousing, PRW SFI billet flywheel, and a stock Ford auto starter. Now with a QuickTime bellhousing, Centerforce lightweight flywheel, and PA 1806 auto starter.
Hopefully the 1806 will work with my stock bell housing, 65 289 and 4 speed toploader (previously a 3spd manual)... Because I just took a chance and ordered one.

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1965 Fastback owned since 1986 - original 289 block & heads - bored .030 over - ported & polished heads - triple angle valve job - performer RPM intake and cam - 10:1 compression - forged pistons - 600cfm holley 4150 - ford full length headers - 4 speed toploader - original 8 inch rear with 3.73 LSD - wilwood front disc brake conversion - upgraded suspension lowered 1 inch - welded sub-frame connectors - 3 row radiator - monte carlo bar - export brace - complete MSD ignition
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post #21 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-25-2019, 10:56 PM
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The starter choice is SOLELY dependent on how many flywheel teeth are on the ring gear. If you have 157 (or 160) you use the "automatic" starter. If you have 164 you use the "manual" starter. The 164-tooth flywheel/flexplate is larger in diameter and the bellhousing places the starter farther away from the crank centerline. Also, the ring gear teeth are offset toward the front of the car vs. the 157 and 160-tooth versions.

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post #22 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-25-2019, 11:21 PM
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What @awhtx and @Woodchuck say. I just had this issue. My Bendix stopped engaging reliably (insert joke here...) and I went through the starter issue at NAPA. To top it off apparently some parts houses have the applications switched. I knew that the starter depths were different prior to installing so I was keen to check. First one wasn't the right one. When you side by side them the depth difference is apparent.

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post #23 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-25-2019, 11:33 PM Thread Starter
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The depth difference wasn't as apparent when going from the OEM style starter to the mini-starter style. On top of that, the support guys I talked to "assured" me that l had the correct starter for my application. I was so convinced that I bolted it up even though it didn't completely fit in the hole. The 164 tooth starter lip is slightly bigger (see diagram hemikiller posted) but the bolts still line up so that threw me off. I ignored my instincts and believed the support guys on the phone. They kept telling me that it depends on auto or manual transmission. Geez...

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1965 Fastback owned since 1986 - original 289 block & heads - bored .030 over - ported & polished heads - triple angle valve job - performer RPM intake and cam - 10:1 compression - forged pistons - 600cfm holley 4150 - ford full length headers - 4 speed toploader - original 8 inch rear with 3.73 LSD - wilwood front disc brake conversion - upgraded suspension lowered 1 inch - welded sub-frame connectors - 3 row radiator - monte carlo bar - export brace - complete MSD ignition
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post #24 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-25-2019, 11:40 PM
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What woodchuck said. Starters shouldn’t be labeled manual or automatic. That in itself is the problem. A 65 V8 Mustang uses the “automatic” starter for automatic and manual applications
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post #25 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-29-2019, 06:34 PM Thread Starter
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Gentlemen,

I just received the PA Performance 1806 (automatic starter) to install.

I'd like to verify that the starter is functioning properly before I bolt it up to the bell housing.

Is there any chance of damaging the starter by connecting the wires while it's laying on the floor and turning it over for a few seconds?

Would like to see that it's spinning and extending.

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--------

1965 Fastback owned since 1986 - original 289 block & heads - bored .030 over - ported & polished heads - triple angle valve job - performer RPM intake and cam - 10:1 compression - forged pistons - 600cfm holley 4150 - ford full length headers - 4 speed toploader - original 8 inch rear with 3.73 LSD - wilwood front disc brake conversion - upgraded suspension lowered 1 inch - welded sub-frame connectors - 3 row radiator - monte carlo bar - export brace - complete MSD ignition
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post #26 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-29-2019, 09:26 PM
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Go right ahead.

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Patrick
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post #27 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-30-2019, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by 19Fastback65 View Post
Gentlemen,

I just received the PA Performance 1806 (automatic starter) to install.

I'd like to verify that the starter is functioning properly before I bolt it up to the bell housing.

Is there any chance of damaging the starter by connecting the wires while it's laying on the floor and turning it over for a few seconds?

Would like to see that it's spinning and extending.

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No problem but you may want to clamp it down or put it in a vice. It will flip, flop and scoot around the floor if you don't.
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post #28 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-30-2019, 04:25 PM
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No problem but you may want to clamp it down or put it in a vice. It will flip, flop and scoot around the floor if you don't.
And once you have it in the vice you can leverage a 2X4 against the drive and make smoke !,I mean test the Bendix.

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post #29 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-30-2019, 04:40 PM
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I don't have many vices but I do, occasionally, use a vise.
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post #30 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-30-2019, 07:08 PM Thread Starter
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Gentlemen,

Thanks so much for the knowledge and the advice! The "automatic" starter from PA Performance (1806 model) works perfectly! My 1965 Fastback is running again and the mini-starter starts my modified 289 better than ever before! Saved at least 11 pounds of weight in the process..

Cheers!



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1965 Fastback owned since 1986 - original 289 block & heads - bored .030 over - ported & polished heads - triple angle valve job - performer RPM intake and cam - 10:1 compression - forged pistons - 600cfm holley 4150 - ford full length headers - 4 speed toploader - original 8 inch rear with 3.73 LSD - wilwood front disc brake conversion - upgraded suspension lowered 1 inch - welded sub-frame connectors - 3 row radiator - monte carlo bar - export brace - complete MSD ignition
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