new acquisition won't fire up - Vintage Mustang Forums
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post #1 of 44 (permalink) Old 06-11-2019, 12:30 PM Thread Starter
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new acquisition won't fire up

So I got the 66 into the barn. It was a long haul from CA to UT but we made it with no problems. However, the little pony is not very well. She turns over fine but does not want to fire up completely. It seems like it wants to start with some cylinders firing but doesn't fire up all the way. I believe it is a timing issue. The PO had a a new carb, alt, and distributor installed recently. The PO said it was running up until about a week ago. When I went to check the dist it was not tightened down and would turn quite easily. I tried moving it to different positions with no luck. Its getting gas and spark. I went to make sure the dist rotor is in the correct position but I can't find the timing marks on the HB. Also the pointer on the front cover is not there. I do see what seems to be a broken-off stud/bolt where I believe the pointer should be. I'm gonna take a wire brush to the HB to see if I can locate the timing marks. If I can't find them what would ya'll suggest be my next step? Also, I want to hook up a remote starter button. I know one of the button wires goes to the positive terminal of the battery but which post on the starter relay does the other wire go to...the small ignition switch terminal or a different one?
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post #2 of 44 (permalink) Old 06-11-2019, 12:36 PM
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Google '66 mustang timing's (I can't attach the document or a link, unfortunately). You want the doc titled 'setting initial timing - mustang project'.

My timing marks weren't visible when I got my 66. After installing a new intake manifold and carburetor, I had to find TDC (plenty of YouTube clips on how to do this, as well as a couple of good pdf docs you can find by googling 'tuning 66 mustang') and adjusted my timing (and fuel nozzles) based on compression, rpm and 'sounding right'. It runs excellently now. All you need is a timing gun, compression testing kit (don't remember the technical term), and a few general tools (screwdrivers etc.).

Bottom line - you might need to ignore the timing marks.

I also have a remote starter assay home with the instruction manual - never used it, but I can respond to the connection question when I get home tonight if no one does it first.

Cheers,
Rui

1966 289 Auto Coupe

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post #3 of 44 (permalink) Old 06-11-2019, 12:38 PM
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Remote starter button goes from battery positive (or large lug on solenoid facing battery) to the front small terminal ("S") on the solenoid. Key must be in the "ON" position for it to start and run.

You might want to see if one of your auto parts stores "loan-a-tool" program has a piston stop you can "rent" to determine (and mark) the exact TDC reference.
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post #4 of 44 (permalink) Old 06-11-2019, 12:44 PM
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One lead on the remote starter connects to the Battery and the other one connects to the small stud closest to the Battery stud on the solenoid. It may be marked with an S for Start. You can accomplish the same thing using a screwdriver to jumper the large Battery stud to the small Start stud on the solenoid.


Use a "piston stop" to locate TDC exactly. You can either buy one or Kelly_H recently posted a thread about using a spark plug anti-fouler and a bolt to make your own.
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post #5 of 44 (permalink) Old 06-11-2019, 01:28 PM
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Suggestion: Find a friend who knows '60' s-'70's Ford engines.. Otherwise, Take it to a reputable mechanic... On your own, If you're not familiar with Ford engines, It will take you a awhile to diagnose. Sounds like the timing on the engine is possibly off....But since you just acquired the car, It could be anything. You'll have go through each system step by step... Fuel, Electrical... otherwise relinquish it to someone who knows what they are looking at.. as it will save you lots of time...and money in the long run.

Posting some pics of the car and its engine will help greatly..

)

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post #6 of 44 (permalink) Old 06-11-2019, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NEFaurora View Post
Suggestion: Find a friend who knows '60' s-'70's Ford engines.. Otherwise, Take it to a reputable mechanic... On your own, If you're not familiar with Ford engines, It will take you a awhile to diagnose. Sounds like the timing on the engine is possibly off....But since you just acquired the car, It could be anything. You'll have go through each system step by step... Fuel, Electrical... otherwise relinquish it to someone who knows what they are looking at.. as it will save you lots of time...and money in the long run.



Posting some pics of the car and its engine will help greatly..



)



Tony K.
C'mon, Tony, isn't half the fun of having a 60's car learning how to fix everything yourself? It often takes me 10 times longer than a mechanic would, but following advice on this forum from people like you (thanks for all the knowledge you share, by the way, had helped me a lot) has made me a lot more knowledgeable (and comfortable) about my old pony

1966 289 Auto Coupe
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post #7 of 44 (permalink) Old 06-11-2019, 05:09 PM
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If all else fails, pull the #1 plug and find tdc compression stroke on #1. Then pull your distributor cap and see where the rotor is pointing at tdc. It should point just past the #1 spark plug terminal as you look counter clockwise at it. If that isn't where the rotor is, set it there. That should be close enough to get it to crank. While you are at this you probably should check to make sure the spark plug wires are plugged into the right places for the timing order.



If it has never ran with you staring at it, the distributor may have been stabbed way off or even 180 off by the PO and they didn't want to say it wouldn't run.
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Last edited by macstang; 06-11-2019 at 05:11 PM.
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post #8 of 44 (permalink) Old 06-11-2019, 05:17 PM
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Pour a little good gas down the carb and see if it starts. You said it was getting a spark to the plugs. If it starts pouring some gas down the carb the problem is either your carb or the fuel. If it doesn't pull a couple of spark plugs and see the condition they are in. Wet and fouled will prevent the car engine from starting. Burned out will prevent it from starting.
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post #9 of 44 (permalink) Old 06-12-2019, 12:59 AM
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Use caution pouring gas down the carb if you have a potential timing issue as you can have a substantial intake backfire and flame or blow the muffler wide open, I have seen both happen.

A foolproof easy way to find top dead center #1 compression stroke is to remove the left valve cover and watch the #6 cylinder (assuming standard 289 firing order) valve action as you rotate the engine. As the exhaust valve is closing and the intake starts to open there is a point when they are exactly level with each other (easily eyeballed) and at that precise point #1 will be at tdc compression. Drop your distributor in pointing at #1 on the cap and advance a hair and you will be very close to where you should be. At that point you will at least know the timing is set! It is a great way to set as it works on any engine as long as you know the firing order, you always check on the cylinder that is opposite of number one in the firing order so in this case the firing order is one542, six378 if that makes sense.
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post #10 of 44 (permalink) Old 06-12-2019, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matter View Post
It is a great way to set as it works on any engine as long as you know the firing order, you always check on the cylinder that is opposite of number one in the firing order so in this case the firing order is one542, six378 if that makes sense.

On old hot rodder once told me that 90% of V8 engines, regardless of make, model, firing order, etc., have #1 and #6 opposite each other in the firing order.
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post #11 of 44 (permalink) Old 06-12-2019, 11:15 AM
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Yep, and for anyone actually wanting to learn this procedure the easiest way to know the opposite cylinder of #1 is to write down the firing order with the second half of the numbers writtin directly below the first half.
Like this 1542
...............6378

The number directly below #1 will be your opposite number in the firing order. Same for 6 cyl, 4 cyl etc. I have used this procedure for more years than I remember for adjusting valves as you don't have to look up anything, just know the firing order and lash. Slap on a remote start button to turn over the engine and write down the firing order first half then the second right below. Turn the engine until you see a pair of valves crossing and then you adjust the opposite cylinder. Fast and foolproof. Many years working as a mechanic on commision...

Last edited by Matter; 06-12-2019 at 11:20 AM.
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post #12 of 44 (permalink) Old 06-12-2019, 12:21 PM
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"C'mon, Tony, isn't half the fun of having a 60's car learning how to fix everything yourself? "

I'd say a big "YES"...

But with saying that, is saying that it's not for everybody.

Basically, If you're not the type of person willing to sift through manuals to learn on your own, You're really better off leaving it to someone else who does or already knows.

I always and will always encourage learning, but the real truth that is that in today's disposable society, People don't have the patience or time to get involved with "what really needs to be done"... They'd rather pay someone else to do it and go on with life and sometimes, truthfully, That really IS the best route for them.

It's the old rabbit hole scenario.... If you're not prepared to go down the rabbit hole (Take the Red Pill) and do what needs to be done, Then It's best not to go down the rabbit hole at all. (Take the Blue Pill)....lol "The Matrix" reference....and save your time and money....

However, It's also been said that one learns from one's own mistakes...albeit however costly.... so there is something to be said for that.

I mean how many "Abandoned" projects have you seen where someone took the car apart and just left it...because they had absolutely no idea of what they were getting themselves into or where that project was even going?!?? I've seen tons... and today, I'm seeing more than I've ever seen before.

I'm not saying that this is the OP's problem.... but a Pew Research was done earlier this year and found out that Most High School and College age males today can't even hold a screw driver or even change a tire... These are just the times that we are living in today...and that's the truth.

https://www.macleans.ca/work/jobs/th...ed-generation/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilhow.../#58b9037779e7

I'm still holding out hope for the future generation....but unfortunately they lack good teachers, and mentors to show them the way..

At any rate, We're here on the VMF to help...so that's what we'll always do.

)

Tony K.
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post #13 of 44 (permalink) Old 06-13-2019, 03:05 PM Thread Starter
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Ok - so I got it to somewhat start...stumbling very roughly and then it dies. If I pump the throttle too much it seems to flood out. "smoke" will come out of the carb and it looks like gas sprays up and out. FYI - it has a Edelbrock 1406 carb, brand new distributor, new wires, new points and condenser, and new coil. PO said when he put in new distributor it ran good but then shut down a few days later. The car came from a low altitude location (200-300 feet above sea level) and now is sitting at an altitude of 4600 feet. I know i"ll need to make some adjustments for altitude gain but thinking it should at least start. Attached are photos of engine bay.
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post #14 of 44 (permalink) Old 06-13-2019, 03:08 PM Thread Starter
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couple more shots
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post #15 of 44 (permalink) Old 06-13-2019, 03:42 PM
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One thing... Would lose that Plastic Fuel Filter...Seen way too many engine fires started over that one. A glass sealed one or metal one would be much better..and safer.
Geez, Someone really liked Blue Heater hoses! You have a good carb and a good manifold to work with. Check the points, cap and condenser and coil...and of course plugs.. I would Start there.

The alternator looks like a one-wire setup....GM Aftermarket Alternator...for Ford...probably bought from SUMMIT or JEGS...

)

Tony K.



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1965 Mustang Convertible 200cid I6, 3spd Manual (Soon to be swapped for a '65 Date Coded C4!)
1966 Mustang Sprint 200 Registry Owner/Moderator
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Getting Ready for the 2020 Melbourne, FL MCA Nationals!

Last edited by NEFaurora; 06-13-2019 at 03:45 PM.
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