PMGR Starter - Help! - Page 2 - Vintage Mustang Forums
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post #16 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-15-2019, 10:42 PM
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I followed the links and read what the OP posted, and it appears the first starter he ordered and received should have been the one to work. Don't understand why it didn't, unless the wrong starter was in the box.
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post #17 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-15-2019, 10:54 PM
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Before you put in the next one, compare the starter drive gear position to your original starter. If the drive gear is almost fully recessed, regardless of what the "snout" looks like, you have the wrong starter.
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post #18 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-15-2019, 11:18 PM Thread Starter
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I really appreciate everyone's responses. I've been an auto enthusiast my whole life and always relied on the bulletin boards for help, even back in the days of dial-up. This group is awesome!

I plan to call PA on Monday morning with all the info I've gained here and see what they say. There's got to be a bone stock 66 289 4spd that has used one of these starters successfully.
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post #19 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-15-2019, 11:21 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeFred View Post
I followed the links and read what the OP posted, and it appears the first starter he ordered and received should have been the one to work. Don't understand why it didn't, unless the wrong starter was in the box.
Agreed. It came from CJ's and is the only one they sell. There were no markings or part numbers anywhere I could find on the starter, only the box. PA said, if 1806 didn't work, then it has to be 1881. No dice.
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post #20 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-16-2019, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by 602Raptor View Post
I went out and took a bunch of measurements.

I have the 157T Flywheel where the ring gear is on the trans side
The original starter has 9 teeth where the PMGR has 10

The snout on the original is 2.25" long
The snout on the PMGR is 1.75" long

Please remember that I first purchased the auto version with the longer, identical length snout and that had the same behavior. I'm wondering if the drive gear is too small. A link to the proper replacement would be super helpful. I also may take the original to the parts store and compare to late model (92-95) mustang stuff as I really want the PMGR to work. I'm not sure why I'm having so much trouble with this, though my research shows that the starter that came out, C30F-11131-A is for an automatic, so maybe it really is this confusing.
If the starter on the left is the original, the one on the right isn't going to spin the engine.
(i.e.: even with the starter gear all the way extended, it won't connect with the flywheel
gear- which is pretty clear in the photo)
The other PMGR starter you had originally was probably not working correctly. You can
check them off the vehicle to make sure the Bendix is sliding all the way out to the end
of the nose....

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post #21 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-16-2019, 11:43 AM
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color me confused, What ring gear do you have ? I would have thought a 157?? Does the 97 v6 T-5 Mustang have a 164 flywheel ?
Youíre confused anyway but thatís besides the point. Yes the V6 uses a 11Ē, 164 tooth at some point I guess in the 90ís Ford standardized starters somewhat. So yes I have a 157 tooth flywheel with the V6 164 tooth starter and it work great. Take it a step farther I have the starter that came with my GT40P. I never thought to see if it would work. It has this extra wing that actually sits on the block plate but gives the appearance of it being clocked differently but it actually fits. Functionally the same as the V6 starter. It looks more like additional bracing now that I know it fits. I thought about using it but it looks like it spent 10 years at the bottom of a mud puddle.
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post #22 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-16-2019, 12:01 PM
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If I go to the parts store with my original and ask for a 1997 V6 Mustang with 5 speed starter, I may be all set?
Yes and if you look it up on Rockauto then click on the drop down box for what else it fits, youíll see itís used in a very wide application

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post #23 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-16-2019, 02:08 PM Thread Starter
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I may be beating a dead horse at this point, but I measured the original again and the snout is 2 1/4" long where as you can see in the pic from the website, the 1806 (the longer version for the auto) is ony 2" long.



Is there a version that has a longer snout than this one? The pic I posted above is of my original ford starter, which was likely installed in the car around 40years ago when the motor was rebuilt.
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post #24 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-16-2019, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 602Raptor View Post
I may be beating a dead horse at this point, but I measured the original again and the snout is 2 1/4" long where as you can see in the pic from the website, the 1806 (the longer version for the auto) is ony 2" long.



Is there a version that has a longer snout than this one? The pic I posted above is of my original ford starter, which was likely installed in the car around 40years ago when the motor was rebuilt.
Yeah, that's a big difference. Needless to say, something here is not as it seems.
Why is it, I'm running a model 1806 in my 289 which, originally, had a C4 and I have nary a problem.

I'm tempted to pull mine and measure the snout. Maybe, as mentioned previously, your box has an incorrect model, as you stated there are no markings on the unit?

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post #25 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 01:08 PM Thread Starter
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I had a great conversation with PA performance this morning. We compared notes and I shared all the information Iíve learned from this thread and they are sending me a new nose for my 1881 starter that will convert it to an 1806. I should have the new part in a couple days and will update you all with my findings.
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post #26 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by 602Raptor View Post
I had a great conversation with PA performance this morning. We compared notes and I shared all the information Iíve learned from this thread and they are sending me a new nose for my 1881 starter that will convert it to an 1806. I should have the new part in a couple days and will update you all with my findings.
Didn't you post you installed the 1806 and it "didn't" work?
Or, did I miss a followup?

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post #27 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 02:25 PM
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I have a stock Motorcraft F7SU-11000-A1B pmgr starter and I just measured the nose and it's 2 1/8 inches for what it's worth. I have no idea what it's out of as a bought it at a swap meet. Hoping it fits a 67 289 with C4 trans. Reading this thread I think it might.

Hope you get it to work out for you.

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post #28 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 06:08 PM Thread Starter
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Didn't you post you installed the 1806 and it "didn't" work?
Or, did I miss a followup?
You are correct, but at least this time I'll have both side by side and can take measurements and will test 1st out of the car.
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post #29 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by sandybob View Post
I have a stock Motorcraft F7SU-11000-A1B pmgr starter and I just measured the nose and it's 2 1/8 inches for what it's worth. I have no idea what it's out of as a bought it at a swap meet. Hoping it fits a 67 289 with C4 trans. Reading this thread I think it might.

Hope you get it to work out for you.

sandybob
Fits a bunch of stuff......

https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Starter...-/291109404438

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post #30 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 07:06 PM
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Currently using a PA1806 with 157T lightweight Centerforce FW and a Quick Time bellhousing with no issues. Now I did install it in the 164T FW holes initially (make that twice) and it would not engage the FW. The starter depth doesn't matter. The diameter and shape of the FW do.

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