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post #31 of 47 (permalink) Old 06-30-2019, 03:00 AM
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In the 1970's me and many others put 1.94 and 1.6 chebby valves in our 289-351W heads. Never had a problem. Never. Not even with pop up pistons. valve to piston clearence was always checked. too many stupid idiots out there that think they know it all. I always liked racing them for money because they were easy to beat.
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post #32 of 47 (permalink) Old 06-30-2019, 03:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Jeff351w View Post
Guys, did anybody look at the other thread? It wasn't the size of the valves LSG commented on, it was the length. Chevy valves are shorter in length than Ford valves potentially causing rocker arm geometry issues. The pushrods will potentially be too long now and the contact pattern between the rocker arms and the stems of the valves may be less than optimal.

The OP needs to verify his geometry and make adjustments as necessary to ensure a good contact pattern on the valvestem. If he does that he'll be fine. If not then wear issues may show up down the road from side loading the valves. The problem comes when guys just slap it all back together without checking and then wonder why the valves and guides prematurely wore out on the heads they paid good money to completely reccondition.

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not a problem. use the springs you need and pushrod length you need. We used screw in studs. Its been so long since i done chebby valves in 289-351W heads i dont remember if anything else is needed but they will work great.

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post #33 of 47 (permalink) Old 06-30-2019, 03:56 AM
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Agreed. With the proper pushrod length and if everything else checks out fine it will be ok.

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post #34 of 47 (permalink) Old 06-30-2019, 05:13 AM
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How much shorter are chevy valves compared to Ford. Does that also have an effect on springs binding as they are already compressed more??

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post #35 of 47 (permalink) Old 06-30-2019, 08:57 AM
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So this is somewhat of an over simplification. If the Ford valves are 5.03's(not the only size around) and you get some 4.91 length valves(not the only size around) which are neither Ford or Chevy or actually they are Ford and Chevy for certain heads like AFR's then you are .12 short.



If you have the same cam and it wants the taller valve spring installed height, the biggest problem that causes is compressing the valve spring .12 more on the seat which increases the spring pressure and it reduces your total lift capability. Whether you get coil bind depends on how much lift your cam has. Regardless, it may work but it is technically wrong unless the valve spring installed height and the push rod length are corrected.



Depending on the heads, a shop might cut the valve pockets down to get the extra spring installed height but it would be best to get the right length valve for the specific heads and not have to cut on the heads. If you have a relatively high lift cam you might need a longer than stock valve to provide for the taller total lift. Regardless of which valve or what you are doing if any machine work has been done or you have swapped cams the push rod length needs to be checked and most likely it will be different that what it used to be.



Another valve dimension that could be different and something that has to be watched for is the valve stem width. AFR's for example seems to like 8mm valve stems for Ford or Chevy heads and in fact, advertise the exact same valves for their Ford and Chevy heads. However, Ford seemed to like 11/32nds(.3438) and so did Chevy for "the old stuff" but then there are some other valve stem widths also.



I'm glad I don't have to work on this stuff in a machine shop and I may have just made the water more muddy writing this. If so, my appologies. There are probably books just on valve train geometry, issues and solutions for all this.


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Last edited by macstang; 06-30-2019 at 09:00 AM.
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post #36 of 47 (permalink) Old 06-30-2019, 12:44 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff351w View Post
This is meant with absolutely no intent to slight or disrespect you in any way whatsoever, but do you know what rail type rockers are? Rail type rockers ARE conventional rockers. They have ears to help keep the rocker arm centered on the valve when guideplates are not used.

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No disrespect taken.

Doesn't rail rockers mean that the rockers have a channel to ride on the stem? If so, I do not. There is no channel. Let me know if I'm missing something-- thanks.

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post #37 of 47 (permalink) Old 06-30-2019, 12:48 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff351w View Post
Agreed. With the proper pushrod length and if everything else checks out fine it will be ok.

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Seems to be the general consensus. Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by macstang View Post
So this is somewhat of an over simplification. If the Ford valves are 5.03's(not the only size around) and you get some 4.91 length valves(not the only size around) which are neither Ford or Chevy or actually they are Ford and Chevy for certain heads like AFR's then you are .12 short.



If you have the same cam and it wants the taller valve spring installed height, the biggest problem that causes is compressing the valve spring .12 more on the seat which increases the spring pressure and it reduces your total lift capability. Whether you get coil bind depends on how much lift your cam has. Regardless, it may work but it is technically wrong unless the valve spring installed height and the push rod length are corrected.



Depending on the heads, a shop might cut the valve pockets down to get the extra spring installed height but it would be best to get the right length valve for the specific heads and not have to cut on the heads. If you have a relatively high lift cam you might need a longer than stock valve to provide for the taller total lift. Regardless of which valve or what you are doing if any machine work has been done or you have swapped cams the push rod length needs to be checked and most likely it will be different that what it used to be.



Another valve dimension that could be different and something that has to be watched for is the valve stem width. AFR's for example seems to like 8mm valve stems for Ford or Chevy heads and in fact, advertise the exact same valves for their Ford and Chevy heads. However, Ford seemed to like 11/32nds(.3438) and so did Chevy for "the old stuff" but then there are some other valve stem widths also.



I'm glad I don't have to work on this stuff in a machine shop and I may have just made the water more muddy writing this. If so, my appologies. There are probably books just on valve train geometry, issues and solutions for all this.
This is good information for me and it helped me better understand where my problems might be coming from. Thank you!

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post #38 of 47 (permalink) Old 06-30-2019, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by alex1965 View Post
No disrespect taken.

Doesn't rail rockers mean that the rockers have a channel to ride on the stem? If so, I do not. There is no channel. Let me know if I'm missing something-- thanks.
Maybe I missed something in the thread and maybe you already know this but you need some way to keep the rocker centered on the valve stem. My original ford iron heads had rail rockers with the "guides" on the rocker itself. My new alum heads have guide plates and the rockers are roller tip with no rails.

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post #39 of 47 (permalink) Old 06-30-2019, 02:47 PM
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I have no interest in reading through this thread, but if you trust your machinist, why are you here asking for advice?

What’s the advantage to using the mismatched parts?

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post #40 of 47 (permalink) Old 06-30-2019, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by walrus View Post
How much shorter are chevy valves compared to Ford. Does that also have an effect on springs binding as they are already compressed more??

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as with any spring install you have to measure how much distance between valve seat and retainer. Pick a spring with the pressure and installed height needed. < this is what an engine shop does but you can do it if you know what you need and have the measuring tools. There are deep cup retainers and the heads can be cut and you can also install lash caps to make the valve stem a little longer. Any performance engine shop can do this. In the early 1990's i had 429 CJ valves put in 1973 small port 460 heads for a powerful low rpm street engine. the CJ valves were taller than the 460 valves and thick shims and universal valve springs had to be used. Lots of measuring was done and I needed longer pushrods. The mild 460 made 550HP on the engine dyno with 100 amp alternator installed at 5700 rpm. I was in my 66 wagon in the foto.

PS. Its not called "Hotrodding" for nothing. Hotrodding is taking and engine and modifying it with non stock parts. MT put Chtysler Hemi heads on a 427 ford. http://macsmotorcitygarage.com/micke...nating-secret/ The 302 boss came about when a ford engineer decided to put 351C 4V heads on a 302. A friend modified a 460 ford aluminum intake to fit a cadillac engine.

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post #41 of 47 (permalink) Old 06-30-2019, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Israel View Post
I have no interest in reading through this thread, but if you trust your machinist, why are you here asking for advice?

What’s the advantage to using the mismatched parts?
the engine makes more power.
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post #42 of 47 (permalink) Old 06-30-2019, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Tallguy View Post
Maybe I missed something in the thread and maybe you already know this but you need some way to keep the rocker centered on the valve stem. My original ford iron heads had rail rockers with the "guides" on the rocker itself. My new alum heads have guide plates and the rockers are roller tip with no rails.
install pushrod guide plates and hardened pushrods

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post #43 of 47 (permalink) Old 06-30-2019, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by macstang View Post
So this is somewhat of an over simplification. If the Ford valves are 5.03's(not the only size around) and you get some 4.91 length valves(not the only size around) which are neither Ford or Chevy or actually they are Ford and Chevy for certain heads like AFR's then you are .12 short.



If you have the same cam and it wants the taller valve spring installed height, the biggest problem that causes is compressing the valve spring .12 more on the seat which increases the spring pressure and it reduces your total lift capability. Whether you get coil bind depends on how much lift your cam has. Regardless, it may work but it is technically wrong unless the valve spring installed height and the push rod length are corrected.



Depending on the heads, a shop might cut the valve pockets down to get the extra spring installed height but it would be best to get the right length valve for the specific heads and not have to cut on the heads. If you have a relatively high lift cam you might need a longer than stock valve to provide for the taller total lift. Regardless of which valve or what you are doing if any machine work has been done or you have swapped cams the push rod length needs to be checked and most likely it will be different that what it used to be.



Another valve dimension that could be different and something that has to be watched for is the valve stem width. AFR's for example seems to like 8mm valve stems for Ford or Chevy heads and in fact, advertise the exact same valves for their Ford and Chevy heads. However, Ford seemed to like 11/32nds(.3438) and so did Chevy for "the old stuff" but then there are some other valve stem widths also.



I'm glad I don't have to work on this stuff in a machine shop and I may have just made the water more muddy writing this. If so, my appologies. There are probably books just on valve train geometry, issues and solutions for all this.
you are making it too complicated. Its very simple and involves addition and subtraction math. I was figuring this stuff out at 16 years of age.

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post #44 of 47 (permalink) Old 06-30-2019, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by walrus View Post
How much shorter are chevy valves compared to Ford. Does that also have an effect on springs binding as they are already compressed more??

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as i posted before you measure the distance between the seat and retainer. you look in the spring catalog and find a spring that has the pressures and installed height and binding height you need. Leave this part for your machine shop to do.
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post #45 of 47 (permalink) Old 06-30-2019, 06:57 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Israel View Post
I have no interest in reading through this thread, but if you trust your machinist, why are you here asking for advice?

What’s the advantage to using the mismatched parts?
Both your questions were answered in the thread you had no interest in reading

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Originally Posted by supershifter2 View Post
the engine makes more power.
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4 speed
Rally-Pac
Bench Seat
Power Steering
All-around discs
Aftermarket A/C

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