Engine RUINED? - Vintage Mustang Forums
 24Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 47 (permalink) Old 06-29-2019, 12:11 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
alex1965's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Posts: 643
Garage
Engine RUINED?

Sorry for the dramatic title. I need views on this, as it's very important.

I've been in the process of rebuilding my engine. Some of you may have seen my "Valvetrain Help" thread. ( https://forums.vintage-mustang.com/v...rain-help.html ). I mentioned that my machinist had put Chevy valves into my heads, and everybody quickly said this was bad.

My machinist has been in business for 40+ years and has a great reputation. He was kind enough to let me rebuild the bottom end with him, because we wanted it done properly but I also wanted to be there. He is extremely knowledgeable and competent, and has forgotten more about engines than I'll probably ever know.

I have attached my build sheet/invoice for the machine shop and I would GREATLY appreciate if you could tell me what's wrong with the combination of parts I'm running. I don't want to ruin my engine. I trust my machinist, and he said that he has used this build for many small block Fords and they turned out great.

Thanks in advance...

Engine Build Invoice.jpg

289
4 speed
Rally-Pac
Bench Seat
Power Steering
All-around discs
Aftermarket A/C

And not nearly enough time


Last edited by alex1965; 06-29-2019 at 12:21 PM.
alex1965 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 47 (permalink) Old 06-29-2019, 12:13 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
alex1965's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Posts: 643
Garage
Should also mention: I got a new cam, lifters, and pushrods as well. I assume they're tailored to match the build. He put new studs in the head for adjusting the valvetrain. I reused the rocker arms and nuts.

289
4 speed
Rally-Pac
Bench Seat
Power Steering
All-around discs
Aftermarket A/C

And not nearly enough time

alex1965 is offline  
post #3 of 47 (permalink) Old 06-29-2019, 12:17 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
alex1965's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Posts: 643
Garage
https://forums.vintage-mustang.com/v...ord-heads.html

This thread is exactly my situation: 1.84 and 1.5 valves in my 289 heads. Useful reading there. And my other research doesn't seem to indicate that this would be a problem?

289
4 speed
Rally-Pac
Bench Seat
Power Steering
All-around discs
Aftermarket A/C

And not nearly enough time


Last edited by alex1965; 06-29-2019 at 12:22 PM.
alex1965 is offline  
 
post #4 of 47 (permalink) Old 06-29-2019, 12:32 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 8,397
Garage
If you truly trust your machinist, why are you shopping for opinions now? It seems that your due diligence about your machinist and the scope of your build should have been completed before you hired him to build your engine. Am I missing something here? (I did not read the earlier thread).
Israel likes this.

url]http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k156/jefftepper/IMG_0027_edited-1.jpg[/url]

*Principal wrench on this 69 Mach I*
JeffTepper is offline  
post #5 of 47 (permalink) Old 06-29-2019, 12:36 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
alex1965's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Posts: 643
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffTepper View Post
If you truly trust your machinist, why are you shopping for opinions now? It seems that your due diligence about your machinist and the scope of your build should have been completed before you hired him to build your engine. Am I missing something here? (I did not read the earlier thread).
I do trust my machinist, and had no intentions of changing what he had put together. I did some quick research about the parts he had suggested and saw no issues or problems. However, three people all seemed to agree that Chevy valves in a Ford head could be problematic. I wanted to get more opinions before I fire it up and potentially ruin my engine... and I don't think that's a bad thing.

289
4 speed
Rally-Pac
Bench Seat
Power Steering
All-around discs
Aftermarket A/C

And not nearly enough time

alex1965 is offline  
post #6 of 47 (permalink) Old 06-29-2019, 12:50 PM
Senior Member
 
DaleB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 182
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by alex1965 View Post
I do trust my machinist, and had no intentions of changing what he had put together. I did some quick research about the parts he had suggested and saw no issues or problems. However, three people all seemed to agree that Chevy valves in a Ford head could be problematic. I wanted to get more opinions before I fire it up and potentially ruin my engine... and I don't think that's a bad thing.
As long as two of those people are not you and your machinist, build on. Everyone has an opinion. Only YOU have the engine.
DaleB is offline  
post #7 of 47 (permalink) Old 06-29-2019, 12:55 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
alex1965's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Posts: 643
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaleB View Post
As long as two of those people are not you and your machinist, build on. Everyone has an opinion. Only YOU have the engine.
I'm well aware of this and agree completely. However, to completely ignore input saying that the combination of parts I have could cause problems in my engine would be foolish and potentially very expensive. I'm not looking for advice on a new build, I'm looking to verify that what I have won't be a problem.

289
4 speed
Rally-Pac
Bench Seat
Power Steering
All-around discs
Aftermarket A/C

And not nearly enough time

alex1965 is offline  
post #8 of 47 (permalink) Old 06-29-2019, 12:57 PM
Senior Member
 
dobrostang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 3,736
If you are truly worried about the Chevy Valves, then before you bolt the heads down use clay or silly puddy to convince yourself that there is enough clearance between the pistons and valves. Turn the engine over slowly with the heads bolted down and stop if you feel interference. THat is the only thing I can think of that would toast the motor instantly.

Heavy Metal Thunder Video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cW3L_O7N_xs
dobrostang is offline  
post #9 of 47 (permalink) Old 06-29-2019, 01:02 PM
Senior Member
 
Turnall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Dothan, AL
Posts: 4,457
Alex, I clarified on your valve train thread. My comment was pure sarcasm...

Allen

My build thread: Allen's Build Thread

My go fast build thread: Go Fast Build Thread
Turnall is offline  
post #10 of 47 (permalink) Old 06-29-2019, 01:05 PM
Senior Member
 
Kelly_H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Austin, TX!
Posts: 6,370
Ok, well, the other day someone on VMF (the facebook group version) told me that control arms should not be greased because grease degrades rubber bushings.

The point is that I would trust someone who has 40 years of experience who you know knows what they're doing, over some rando on the internet with unknown background. Most people here on the forum are very sharp. But there are always a number of people who speak with authority but have no data to back it up.


Calamity Jane 1966 Modified Fastback - Driven semi-daily!
Wrecked and rebuilt even better
289 v8, 4-speed, 3.25 9" rear, goodies and stuff.

See my travel blog here for my adventures: http://mapandamustang.blogspot.com/
Over 50,000 miles of North American roads driven on road trips since 2014. More always in the works - stay tuned!

When I show up at a car show and my car is covered in mud, it's probably because I drove 2000 miles to get there
Kelly_H is offline  
post #11 of 47 (permalink) Old 06-29-2019, 01:06 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
alex1965's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Posts: 643
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by dobrostang View Post
If you are truly worried about the Chevy Valves, then before you bolt the heads down use clay or silly puddy to convince yourself that there is enough clearance between the pistons and valves. Turn the engine over slowly with the heads bolted down and stop if you feel interference. THat is the only thing I can think of that would toast the motor instantly.
I already have the heads and intake bolted on. I can turn the engine over, and I don't feel anything contacting... but it is a little difficult now that there's a little bit of compression.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turnall View Post
Alex, I clarified on your valve train thread. My comment was pure sarcasm...

Allen
Okay, thank goodness. That's what I was hoping. Hard to tell tone over the internet!

289
4 speed
Rally-Pac
Bench Seat
Power Steering
All-around discs
Aftermarket A/C

And not nearly enough time

alex1965 is offline  
post #12 of 47 (permalink) Old 06-29-2019, 01:08 PM
Senior Member
 
bbmach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Atl
Posts: 273
Garage
No need for drama. :-) Itís can be a bit of a challenge if the person assembling is different than the person machining. Thatís why you should be checking everything. The first time is fun. The second? Not so much.

Inherently parts is parts. If the machine shop did his job, the valve seats in the heads have been modified to fit the Chevy valve sizes. No biggie. As mentioned, no real reason to do it these days, as there are a lot of other options, but whatever as the kids say. Chalk it up to old-school thinking.

Also, as mentioned, youíll need to pay close attention to the rocker arm geometry and push rod length during the mock up part of the build. But you should be doing that anyway.

If the shop has done this in the past, they should give you an idea of which pushrods youíll need. But, you still have to check.

Get back to work! :-)
kenash likes this.

1969 Mach-1 Mustang
460 / C6 / 9"
Back in Dixie DSO 22 (Charlotte)
bbmach is offline  
post #13 of 47 (permalink) Old 06-29-2019, 01:12 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
alex1965's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Posts: 643
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly_H View Post
Ok, well, the other day someone on VMF (the facebook group version) told me that control arms should not be greased because grease degrades rubber bushings.

The point is that I would trust someone who has 40 years of experience who you know knows what they're doing, over some rando on the internet with unknown background. Most people here on the forum are very sharp. But there are always a number of people who speak with authority but have no data to back it up.
I'm aware that the internet gives a voice to those who might not necessarily deserve one, but I was just a little concerned because the people who thought it was problematic were knowledgable and long-time members.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbmach View Post
No need for drama. :-) Itís can be a bit of a challenge if the person assembling is different than the person machining. Thatís why you should be checking everything. The first time is fun. The second? Not so much.

Inherently parts is parts. If the machine shop did his job, the valve seats in the heads have been modified to fit the Chevy valve sizes. No biggie. As mentioned, no real reason to do it these days, as there are a lot of other options, but whatever as the kids say. Chalk it up to old-school thinking.

Also, as mentioned, youíll need to pay close attention to the rocker arm geometry and push rod length during the mock up part of the build. But you should be doing that anyway.

If the shop has done this in the past, they should give you an idea of which pushrods youíll need. But, you still have to check.

Get back to work! :-)
What exactly should I be looking for regarding rocker arm geometry and pushrod length? I am definitely trying to avoid a second time around

289
4 speed
Rally-Pac
Bench Seat
Power Steering
All-around discs
Aftermarket A/C

And not nearly enough time

alex1965 is offline  
post #14 of 47 (permalink) Old 06-29-2019, 01:14 PM
Senior Member
 
DaleB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 182
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by alex1965 View Post
I'm well aware of this and agree completely. However, to completely ignore input saying that the combination of parts I have could cause problems in my engine would be foolish and potentially very expensive. I'm not looking for advice on a new build, I'm looking to verify that what I have won't be a problem.
Why would you take the opinion of SGOTI over your machinist who's done this before? I'd listen to someone who could tell me, "Hey, I did this same thing, and here's the problem I encountered". But the guy who just says, "Oh, no, that won't work" without anything to back it up... not so much.

It's interesting, though, that the topic came up. I was just reading -- literally yesterday afternoon -- an article on Ford smallblock heads. The author says that using larger Chevy valves was a common practice. According to the article, the only potential issue was that cutting the seat larger would get you out of the induction hardened area of the head, leaving non-hardened cast iron. Not a problem (according to him) for a street engine. Ah, here's the link: Modifying Small Block Ford Cylinder Heads

Now, is this guy more credible than someone else? I have no idea, but a quick Google search will bring up quite a number of references detailing pretty much the exact same thing.
DaleB is offline  
post #15 of 47 (permalink) Old 06-29-2019, 01:18 PM
Senior Member
 
bbmach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Atl
Posts: 273
Garage
Comp Cams has a good, short video on pushrod length and geometry. Helps if you pull the spark plugs when rotating the engine.

kenash and Rebel Racing like this.

1969 Mach-1 Mustang
460 / C6 / 9"
Back in Dixie DSO 22 (Charlotte)
bbmach is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Vintage Mustang Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome