Pertronix/Resistor Wire - Vintage Mustang Forums
 4Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-30-2019, 06:14 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
MyOldGrayMare's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 26
Pertronix/Resistor Wire

So I was quite disappointed to find out AFTER I bought a Pertronix ignition kit for my car (way to be upfront in your advertising Pertronix) that it requires tearing up your wiring harness behind the dash. Let sleeping dogs lay, that’s likely to create a host of new electrical problems. Looking for an easier way, something all forward of the firewall, I noticed two things. I see wire 262 feeds a full 12 volts back into the ignition circuit downstream from the resistor wire while the starter cranks for a hotter spark at that time. And wire 904 is 12 volt power from the ignition switch to the regulator, on when the car is on. What happens if you put a jumper wire between them? There doesn’t appear to be continuity between the high and low amp outputs from the starter solenoid when off, but if there ever were a fuse in the jumper would prevent your little wires from trying to drive the starter. A slightly less unobtrusive method would be to run a jumper straight from 904 to the coil. It seems too simple. What am I missing?

1st Car - 1966 Convertible 200 C4 Silver Frost / Red I've been riding in it for 50 years, driving it for 46. My parents owed me 200 bucks they stole from my paper route money but gave me the car instead.
MyOldGrayMare is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-30-2019, 07:59 PM
Senior Member
 
jdub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 4,472
I bought the Pertronix relay kit and did all the wiring under the hood. Not sure why you'd need to go inside the dash.
Brent likes this.

1965 Mustang
jdub is online now  
post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-30-2019, 08:48 PM
Senior Member
 
FrankieThe69Kid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Marshfield, MA, USA
Posts: 1,792
Ditto on jdub… I've had my Pertronix on 3 engines now (the same kit) since around 2006. There's one wire from the dist to the coil, nothing going back to or anywhere near the firewall.
Welcome to the forum!
What year is the car? what engine?

69 Convertible, 351W, T5, E-Brock Performer 351-W intake, Performer Plus cam, Holley 4160, power assist, dual exhaust, 4-wheel manual drums.
FrankieThe69Kid is offline  
 
post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-30-2019, 09:07 PM
Senior Member
Supporting Member
 
Brent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 842
Garage
As others have said, you can run a new wire from under the dash to bypass the Pink resistor wire (but leave the pink wire disconnected under the dash) or you can install the Pertronix relay.

To run your own wire:
From the coil + terminal, run the 12-gauge wire through the firewall and under the dash to the ignition switch. Coming off of the ignition switch is a pink wire with a bullet connector. I just unplugged that bullet connector and plugged my 12-gauge wire into the female connector going to the ignition switch. That pink wire is the existing wire running to the coil and providing power, however, it has an inline resistor so it only provides the coil approximately 5.5 volts instead of the Ignitor-desired 12-volts. You must connect your 12-gauge wire to this pink bullet connector coming off the ignition switch, as it is the only wire being powered when the ignition switch is in the START position. I initially did the wiring lazily and hooked the 12-gauge wire to the ignition switch post sticking out the back of the switch. This is an accessory post and it only provides power in the ON or ACC positions but NOT the START position. So I would have the ignition switch ON and I would test the voltage at the coil and it would read 12-volts so I thought it was wired correctly but then it wouldn't start. So yea, don't do that!

66 GT350 Tribute in Sapphire Blue built over 12-years and finally being driven!
Brent is offline  
post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-30-2019, 09:46 PM
Senior Member
 
LeeFred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,347
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent View Post
Coming off of the ignition switch is a pink wire with a bullet connector. I just unplugged that bullet connector and plugged my 12-gauge wire into the female connector going to the ignition switch. That pink wire is the existing wire running to the coil and providing power, however, it has an inline resistor so it only provides the coil approximately 5.5 volts instead of the Ignitor-desired 12-volts. You must connect your 12-gauge wire to this pink bullet connector coming off the ignition switch, as it is the only wire being powered when the ignition switch is in the START position.
I don't know about the other years, and don't even know what year vehicle the OP is working on, but on the 65/66 ignition switch, there is a RED/GREEN wire coming out of the ignition switch, and then connects with a bullet connector to the PINK resistor wire. So to slightly modify Brent's directions, disconnect the PINK wire from the RED/GREEN wire coming from the switch, and then connect your new wire to the RED/GREEN wire connector.



I've started a blog about my car and adventures: http://65mustangfun.blogspot.com/

1965 Fastback, 289, Toploader 4 Speed, owned by me since June 1980. Originally a C-code with a C-4. 5R09C16****
LeeFred is online now  
post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-30-2019, 09:53 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Annapolis, MD
Posts: 313
I just ran a wire from the power side of the coil to operate a relay which then provides a full 12v to my DuraSpark module. I believe the Pertronix relay kit does just that. Only requires a few wires (all under the hood) and an hour of time.
kenash likes this.
CJM68GT390 is offline  
post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-30-2019, 10:00 PM
Senior Member
 
kenash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Severna Park, MD
Posts: 5,931
Garage
I see from your "first" post, "What are you missing" .....a bunch!
You can search this site for relative comments regarding adding a Pertronix "sparkie", you will receive a "ton" of replies. A simple dedicated 12V supply to the Red lead and ground the black lead.

Ken ..
64 1/2 Poppy Red Cvt. Resto-Mod
333 Cu.in. T5z, 3:55, Dual 40 mm DCOE Webers
Performer RPM, CI cam, TFS/TWs, Tri-Ys, Discs w/Shelby Drums
Maryland
kenash is offline  
post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-30-2019, 10:07 PM
Senior Member
Supporting Member
 
Brent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 842
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeFred View Post
I don't know about the other years, and don't even know what year vehicle the OP is working on, but on the 65/66 ignition switch, there is a RED/GREEN wire coming out of the ignition switch, and then connects with a bullet connector to the PINK resistor wire. So to slightly modify Brent's directions, disconnect the PINK wire from the RED/GREEN wire coming from the switch, and then connect your new wire to the RED/GREEN wire connector.
Good catch! My write-up was for a '66 Mustang and the pink resistor wire I was referencing is plugged into the Red/Green wire bullet connector coming off of the ignition switch.

66 GT350 Tribute in Sapphire Blue built over 12-years and finally being driven!
Brent is offline  
post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-30-2019, 10:58 PM
Senior Member
 
Woodchuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Peoples Republic of Vermont
Posts: 32,688
Send a message via Yahoo to Woodchuck
Okay.

First, if you are NOT replacing your ignition coil with a true 12V coil then you need to leave the resistance wire in place. If you ARE replacing the ignition coil you can either remove and replace the resistance wire with a plain primary stranded copper wire or bypass it which will accomplish the same thing, just being a little less "proper".

If you want to run a new wire, you can use a ring terminal at the ignition switch, and you can "drill" a blank space in the firewall plug and butyl glue in male/female bullet connectors and a "clean" wire to the Pertronix.

If you have a 3-speed heater blower (late '65) you can also run your Pertronix off the BROWN wire to the heater blower motor, tapping into it just off the firewall plug. Just remember that it's fused so if you blow the fuse the blower motor won't work and the car won't run. Good reason to carry some spare SFE14's in the glove box. LOL.

Bart

What, me worry?
- Alfred E. Neuman

Woodchuck is offline  
post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-30-2019, 11:35 PM
Senior Member
Supporting Member
 
Brent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 842
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodchuck View Post
Okay.

First, if you are NOT replacing your ignition coil with a true 12V coil then you need to leave the resistance wire in place. If you ARE replacing the ignition coil you can either remove and replace the resistance wire with a plain primary stranded copper wire or bypass it which will accomplish the same thing, just being a little less "proper".

If you want to run a new wire, you can use a ring terminal at the ignition switch, and you can "drill" a blank space in the firewall plug and butyl glue in male/female bullet connectors and a "clean" wire to the Pertronix.

If you have a 3-speed heater blower (late '65) you can also run your Pertronix off the BROWN wire to the heater blower motor, tapping into it just off the firewall plug. Just remember that it's fused so if you blow the fuse the blower motor won't work and the car won't run. Good reason to carry some spare SFE14's in the glove box. LOL.

The Ignitor 1 is the only version that allows the use of the stock Ford coil since its resistance is approx 1.4ohms, which is close to what the Ignitor 1 requires; the Ignitor 2 and 3 require the corresponding Flamethrower 2 or 3 coils with lower resistances (0.6ohms, 0.3ohms). For optimal performance with the Ignitor 1, however noticeable that may be, it's recommended to use the Flamethrower 1 coil and bypass the resistor wire. Additionally, if using the Ignitor 1 with Ford coil, without bypassing the pink resistance wire going to the coil, the Ignitor still requires a full 12-volts source, which in this setup can't be from the coil.

FYI - many times people state they installed an Ignitor module but didn't run the necessary 12-volt source to the Ignitor pos wire, instead just wiring it to the coil without bypassing the pink wire, and this voids the included Pertronix 30 month warranty.

Attached is the Ford Ignitor 1 wiring diagram if using the Ford OEM coil and therefore not bypassing the pink resistance wire. If using the Ignitor 1 with matching Flamethrower 1 coil, the resistance wire must be bypassed.

Using the heater blower wiring is a cool trick.
Attached Images
File Type: png Screen 2019-06-30 at 8.13.33 PM.png (109.0 KB, 12 views)

66 GT350 Tribute in Sapphire Blue built over 12-years and finally being driven!
Brent is offline  
post #11 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-01-2019, 03:14 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Denver, Co
Posts: 112
I had a 72 Galaxie with a 351C. With points it was hit and miss as to when it would start. I put the pertronix kit in it and never had another problem. Everything was done under the hood
pes88 is offline  
post #12 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-02-2019, 09:39 AM
Member
 
DKGRN68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: New England
Posts: 35
I had a Pertronix Ignitor 1 in my last mustang for years without any issues. So I was a fan. For my current mustang I figured let's go with the Ignitor 2. Well that was a mistake. Burned out two units now and one Pertronix coil. I used the relay and everything. Spoke to their tech a few times. Nice people. Bad units I was told. Well, I finally parted ways and went back to points. No more issues. Trust me having your car die on the side of the road isn't fun...

1968 V8 Coupe
Factory AC
Factory Disc Brakes
Factory PS
DKGRN68 is offline  
post #13 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-02-2019, 01:20 PM
Senior Member
Supporting Member
 
Brent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 842
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKGRN68 View Post
I had a Pertronix Ignitor 1 in my last mustang for years without any issues. So I was a fan. For my current mustang I figured let's go with the Ignitor 2. Well that was a mistake. Burned out two units now and one Pertronix coil. I used the relay and everything. Spoke to their tech a few times. Nice people. Bad units I was told. Well, I finally parted ways and went back to points. No more issues. Trust me having your car die on the side of the road isn't fun...
I've heard the same issues with the Ignitor 2, however, I've ran the Ignitor 3 for many years without issue and prior to that I ran a very early version of the Ignitor 1 for years. The Ignitor 3 has a feature where it retards the timing for starting, which has made my hot starts much quicker, and it also has a rev limiter built in. Additionally, the Ignitor 1 would burn out if the ignition key was left in the ON position without the engine running but the Ignitor 3 remedied that.

I've had my '66 breakdown due to a battery failing, my shifter bolts backing out, shifter rod spring clips popping off, and a fuel leak but nothing ignition/electrical related. If owning/driving a classic has taught me anything, it's to have towing coverage on my insurance policy.

66 GT350 Tribute in Sapphire Blue built over 12-years and finally being driven!
Brent is offline  
post #14 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-02-2019, 05:06 PM
Senior Member
 
Woodchuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Peoples Republic of Vermont
Posts: 32,688
Send a message via Yahoo to Woodchuck
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent View Post
The Ignitor 1 is the only version that allows the use of the stock Ford coil since its resistance is approx 1.4ohms, which is close to what the Ignitor 1 requires; the Ignitor 2 and 3 require the corresponding Flamethrower 2 or 3 coils with lower resistances (0.6ohms, 0.3ohms).
Actually, neither the Ignitor II or III REQUIRES replacing the stock coil although they state "For maximum performance it's recommended you use..." one of their "Flamethrowers".

The "Adaptive Dwell" feature will tailor the coil charging cycle to the type of coil connected. Since the low-impedance coil will charge faster the "Adaptive Dwell" feature can maximize its output potential although, to be honest, I have my reservations that in the real world it's all THAT much better than a stock coils performance.

Bart

What, me worry?
- Alfred E. Neuman

Woodchuck is offline  
post #15 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-02-2019, 07:06 PM
Senior Member
Supporting Member
 
Brent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 842
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodchuck View Post
Actually, neither the Ignitor II or III REQUIRES replacing the stock coil although they state "For maximum performance it's recommended you use..." one of their "Flamethrowers".

The "Adaptive Dwell" feature will tailor the coil charging cycle to the type of coil connected. Since the low-impedance coil will charge faster the "Adaptive Dwell" feature can maximize its output potential although, to be honest, I have my reservations that in the real world it's all THAT much better than a stock coils performance.
My previous statement that the Ignitor 2/3 both REQUIRE coils with matching resistance (so no OEM Ford coils) was from my past memory of when I researched their products for my '66. However, I just spoke with the PerTronix tech department and they confirmed what I stated:

Ignitor 1 can use a stock Ford coil but increased performance is provided by their Flamethrower 1 coil. If switching to the Flamethrower 1 coil, the pink resistance wire must be bypassed for the coil.

Ignitor 2/3 can NOT use an OEM Ford coil as it will cause the Ignitor module to burn out. Maybe people have gotten away with using the Ford coil with Ignitor 2/3 modules but it's not recommended and the warranty will be void. Unfortunately, Pertronix doesn't have this info clearly detailed on their website.

In all instances, the Ignitor module still requires a full 12-volts, no matter what coil is used. This requires either a relay kit or another 12-volt source, which means you can't use the stock wiring and connect the Ignitor to the positive coil terminal (unless you've already bypassed the pink wire).

I agree with your assessment with the Adaptive Dwell; I didn't notice any performance difference going from the Ignitor 1 to 3 besides slightly improved warm/hot start performance. However, I noticed significant performance and drivability improvements going from dual-points (where I was using new Motorcraft parts and the points had been professionally set) to the Ignitor 1.

66 GT350 Tribute in Sapphire Blue built over 12-years and finally being driven!

Last edited by Brent; 07-02-2019 at 07:12 PM.
Brent is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Vintage Mustang Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome