Afr 165 heads or TF Twisted Wedge 170 - Vintage Mustang Forums
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Old 07-02-2019, 05:32 PM Thread Starter
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Afr 165 heads or TF Twisted Wedge 170

Got a 351w short block decked .020 over assembled but was wondering what heads would give me less issues with ptv issues. Pistons are .020 federal mogul with valve reliefs but not sure they would clear 2.02 valves. cam i have is the comp cam xe268h .510/.512 224/230. It's going to be a street car, i have daily driver reliability in mind, would these heads get me to 400hp at the crank? Reason i would go with the 165's is because of the 1.94 valves. also will have the weiand stealth intake and headman long tubes. I have looked through many forums and haven't gotten a clear answer especially with 165's going on a 351w making decent power. thanks for any help!
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Old 07-02-2019, 06:17 PM
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Some people cut more generous valve reliefs in their pistons than others. I don't know which do and which don't but you may not have a valve clearance problem with the cam you are planning to run. It would be better for your engine, my opinion, to go with the AFR 185's even if you have to have the intake reliefs cut a bit wider. To know for sure you won't really know until you put the clay on the pistions and turn it through and see what sort of clay displacement you have.


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Old 07-02-2019, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Ambitious67Mustang View Post
Got a 351w short block decked .020 over assembled but was wondering what heads would give me less issues with ptv issues. Pistons are .020 federal mogul with valve reliefs but not sure they would clear 2.02 valves. cam i have is the comp cam xe268h .510/.512 224/230. It's going to be a street car, i have daily driver reliability in mind, would these heads get me to 400hp at the crank? Reason i would go with the 165's is because of the 1.94 valves. also will have the weiand stealth intake and headman long tubes. I have looked through many forums and haven't gotten a clear answer especially with 165's going on a 351w making decent power. thanks for any help!
Those little AFR Renegade 165 heads will make some steam. Engine masters had a set on a 408W with a super small cam and made 515 TQ at 3900 rpm and 471HP at 5400 rpm. With the AFR 195 heads and same super small cam it made 520 TQ and 484 HP at 5500 rpm. So yes they can support the numbers you are after.
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Old 07-02-2019, 08:57 PM
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If buying new I would go with the new Trick Flow 11R 190 heads. They have different valve angles that is supposed to give a lot more PTV clearance then their older Trick Flow as cast heads.
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Old 07-02-2019, 09:50 PM
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If your interested in the Trick Flow heads give the a call with the part number of your pistons, deck height, gasket thickness, and your cam specs. Super simple! Same with AFR. Much safer than forum hearsay!
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Old 07-02-2019, 10:07 PM
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Both heads are excellent. It's my belief that the chamber design is a little better on the AFR's compared to the TW's. While they are very comparable on the top end, with the TW's possibly even delivering a few more peak horsepower due to the canted valve design, I think the AFR average power would be a little better. The AFR's BSFC is better, too, which means better mileage.



So - for street use, I'd buy the AFR's. If you're more interested in racing, the TW design has slightly more potential for peak power - but not much.

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Old 07-02-2019, 10:07 PM
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+1 on the TFS 190 11R heads. Let that 351 breathe .

Nailbender has sound advice, give them a call- they're going to tell you to measure regardless.

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Old 07-02-2019, 10:14 PM
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Those TFS 190 11R heads look like the stuff! Anybody want to buy some slightly used 170's? I'll even throw in a set of 30 over Probe flat tops for a 331 with even less use! They have the proper valve reliefs!

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Roller 331, TW 170 heads, T-5z, FiTech EFI, FPA Headers, Arvinode exhaust, SoT Bilstien coilover front suspension, TJ on eBay 8" 3.40 Trac-Loc 3rd member. Mustang Steve 2008 GT bracketed 12.4" front disks
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Old 07-02-2019, 11:08 PM
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If buying new I would go with the new Trick Flow 11R 190 heads. They have different valve angles that is supposed to give a lot more PTV clearance then their older Trick Flow as cast heads.
Agree with 190s on the 351w. They won't be too big, the manners will come from the cam.

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Old 07-02-2019, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by cmefly View Post
Those little AFR Renegade 165 heads will make some steam. Engine masters had a set on a 408W with a super small cam and made 515 TQ at 3900 rpm and 471HP at 5400 rpm. With the AFR 195 heads and same super small cam it made 520 TQ and 484 HP at 5500 rpm. So yes they can support the numbers you are after.
Had too many toys and modded too many cars to get into one of the threads where what I bought is best because I bought it. I did go with the AFR 165 heads because of how well the exhaust flow is under .600. They make power throughout the entire range and are very nice heads. I'm sure the the TF are good too and outflow the AFRs on the intake because of the larger intake valve. I guess because I used to talk to Tony Mamo when he owned AFR and how many time he helped me with things I just stuck with AFR.

Here is a good link to a comparison. The TFS flow more but the AFR develops more power per the article.

https://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/...afr/index2.php

TFS Twisted Wedge

Lift Value: Intake Flow: Exhaust Flow:
(CFM) (CFM)

0.100" 63 53
0.200" 141 107
0.300" 205 144
0.400" 233 171
0.500" 251 187
0.600" 251 193

AFR 165cc

Lift Value: Intake Flow: Exhaust Flow:
(CFM) (CFM)

0.100" N/A N/A
0.200" 129 121
0.300" 186 155
0.400" 228 192
0.500" 244 207
0.600" 254 215

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Last edited by Shinobi68; 07-02-2019 at 11:27 PM.
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Old 07-02-2019, 11:38 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Nailbender View Post
If your interested in the Trick Flow heads give the a call with the part number of your pistons, deck height, gasket thickness, and your cam specs. Super simple! Same with AFR. Much safer than forum hearsay!
Oh I would be anyway. Was hoping my other half of my question could be answered too being will both of these heads be able to get to 400hp at the crank with my parts listed. So I guess 340-350rwhp. Thanks
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Old 07-03-2019, 12:03 AM
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The 190's certainly wont be too big on a 351, Im running the 11R 190's on a 302 and the only negative effect i can see is decreased rear tire life.
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