Pulled my motor rebuild vs create - Page 2 - Vintage Mustang Forums
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post #16 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-06-2019, 06:57 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Treozen View Post

Now....for the opinion you didn't ask for.... All I see these days at car shows are nice cars with monster honking engines, things that sound great, run better, but never belonged under the hood. I'm genuinely surprised and more interested when I see the power plant that's supposed to be there, better yet if its a rodded-up straight 6. Seriously, cool cars with near track-level HP engines are a dime a dozen, cars with their original engines, perhaps taken up a few notches, but still a recognizable 289 ( for example) are a rarer breed. Ultimately its what you want to drive, what makes this hobby / addiction / money pit of a lifestyle worth it, so its totally your call and I respect whatever car guys and gals decide is best for them, but the "8-million horsepower, super blower, 18" exhaust, 8 bottles of nitrous" in a mini cooper, is just over done IMHO. There's only so many times you can hear a giant cam, rolling through a gear drive with a twin four-barrel sticking out the hood, before its just so much background noise, and the little SS nova with its straight 6, is the more interesting ride.
Yeah I agree. My local shows all the classic Mustangs are mostly stock so that wouldn't stand out. My car is a C code fastback and previous owners have done a number of things to move it away from original. For example someone painted it a 91 Miata green and added black Shelby stripes. Our uncle who owned it in the 70s 80s added headers a Shelby 9" rear end and hipo heads. Someone added an after market intake and an autolite 4, could have been our uncle. The most impressive Mustang I ever saw was an all original down to the chalk marks, even had a generator.

I think most people stay original because it's a lot cheaper. The crate motor is going to be double the cost.
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post #17 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-06-2019, 07:18 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by macstang View Post
For that 363 detuned to maye 480 at the flywheel you will need;


TKO or better manual with a competition clutch or a pro race built automatic
better than your average disc brakes

significantly stronger than stock u-joints, drive shaft and yokes
31 spline trac loc 9 inch with better axles and gears
better cooling system
widest best handling tires that you can cram under it
complete retune of the suspension including the shocks, sway bar and springs
or convert to competition coil overs and a 4 link rear

better fuel system
better ignition system
just some subfame connectors and a monte carlo bar won't be enough
the chassis will need additional work

BETTER EVERYTHING BASICALLY.


You don't have to do all that at one time but if you nail it hard you are likely going to break stuff.
Thanks for the advice. Will be putting in a new fuel pump to match the motor. Have a Shelby 9 rear end. I was thinking of pulling the tranny now and see what my local shop suggests. I just put a new clutch in but I don't know if it can handle 500hp. I added DeWit high performance aluminium rad and the bigger sway bar from Shelby/GT with new bushings. Would love to put new suspension eventually.

Tech guy at Ford said I shouldn't break anything because I wouldnt be able to put down that power on street tires (hook up).
What else can you do for chassis. I read the entire thread on here about it and what people suggested. The Gloabal West frame connector seemed like the way to go. Don't want a roll cage.
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post #18 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-06-2019, 08:48 AM Thread Starter
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I also found coolent on top of some the pistons. Could this have happened when I pulled off the intake?
I'm pretty sure it had a bad ring or worn cylinder on the driver side. I never had to top up coolent. And smoke was only coming out of one side. When I would accelerate I would create a smoke cloud.
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post #19 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-06-2019, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by gen3 View Post
Don't know how to rebuild a motor. So do I trust a local shop or due I trust Ford. I would trust Ford over any of the shops around here. Detuning is mainly because the super Victor they used is too tall and I don't want to cut my hood. They used a 750cfm and I already have a new 650cfm.
Ford hasn’t built a SBF in over 25 years and they don’t build that crate engine either. They just put their name on it and have another shop build them.


“De tuning” it with another intake is a poor idea. The heads, cam, and intake are a combo package that works together. When you change one of those things, you need to change them all. When you choke that engine with a smaller intake, you’re going to have an engine that doesn’t perform well at any RPM range.
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post #20 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-06-2019, 09:35 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sportsroof69 View Post
Ford hasnít built a SBF in over 25 years and they donít build that crate engine either. They just put their name on it and have another shop build them.


ďDe tuningĒ it with another intake is a poor idea. The heads, cam, and intake are a combo package that works together. When you change one of those things, you need to change them all. When you choke that engine with a smaller intake, youíre going to have an engine that doesnít perform well at any RPM range.
The engine doesn't come with an intake or carb. They simple state what they used to get the hp number they are advertising. Ford and Summit techs said a Performer RPM would be fine. De tuning is probably not an accurate description.
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post #21 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-06-2019, 10:05 AM
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If you've got the coin for the 363 and want it, do it. Just be aware that the cost is probably much higher in the long run than the cost of the crate motor.

The advantage to rebuilding the 289 is that you know it works and it'll just bolt right back up...
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post #22 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-06-2019, 10:05 AM
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Your are talking about a $9000 motor and having a shop build a trans to match your HP numbers? Thatís gonna be a 11-13K price point. Then you say you havenít rebuilt your front end and may need to do that in the future? I guess if itís really fast n loud, no one will care if it can stop or steer. I approach the car differently. I make em run so they are moveable. Then comes brake restoration, followed by suspension and steering. Then I work on motor upgrades. I guess since you have it apart, you could do it all in one shot? I would definitely make sure your stopping and steering were up to snuff before throwing a ton of money into the motor and be afraid to drive it.
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post #23 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-06-2019, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by 2nd 66 View Post
Doesn't get much easier than a SBF beg borrow steal the Tom Monroe "How To Build Your Small Block Ford" book ,Or google for the free PDF download. I've been forbidden of sharing that here though sorry copy write thing
Really ? Apparently you have been reading some of the screwed up home-builds on this site

Building an engine does require some specialized tools and a good skill-set, definitely not something everyone is capable of, or even has the desire to learn. Especially it it's a one-off.
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post #24 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-06-2019, 10:21 AM Thread Starter
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Your are talking about a $9000 motor and having a shop build a trans to match your HP numbers? Thatís gonna be a 11-13K price point. Then you say you havenít rebuilt your front end and may need to do that in the future? I guess if itís really fast n loud, no one will care if it can stop or steer. I approach the car differently. I make em run so they are moveable. Then comes brake restoration, followed by suspension and steering. Then I work on motor upgrades. I guess since you have it apart, you could do it all in one shot? I would definitely make sure your stopping and steering were up to snuff before throwing a ton of money into the motor and be afraid to drive it.
Yeah those are important. I'm starting here only because I was leaving a smoke screen behind me.
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post #25 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-06-2019, 11:03 AM
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You are getting some very good advice here on both sides of the issue. My recommendation would be to rebuild what you have.

In addition to making sure everything behind the engine is up to the task, also consider you're going to have fitment issues. Does the new engine have a threaded hole in the block for clutch Z-bar? If not, sure, there are ways around that. But this is just one little example of many issues with such a crate motor swap. You won't know you have them until you get there.

As someone told you, it's difficult to put 500 HP to the ground in a vintage Mustang. Yeah, people do it, but the reality is they simply melt the rear tires. That's a lot of money to just make tire smoke. And a well built 289 can certainly do burnouts.

If you rebuild your 289 with good compression, a good dual exhaust and a good cam, it will be a very fun street engine. If you add aluminum heads, it will be a pretty potent street engine; more than enough power. Small block Fords are a LOT of fun when you give them a LOT of cam. Since you have a manual trans, you're already way ahead of the game for a custom, snotty cam (within reason).

It's your car, your budget and your decision. Someone here made a very good point about cost. Buying the engine is just the beginning of what will be a long and costly shopping list. If you expect this and are prepared for it, cool. Unfortunately, a lot of people have grandiose visions which never become reality due to cost and complexity. My take is it's more fun to cruise to Dairy Queen in a nice Mustang with a warmed-over small block than spending years staring at a bunch of expensive parts in the garage.

Whatever you decide to do, have fun!
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post #26 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-06-2019, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by gen3. View Post
Pulled my 289 out today. Smoke was coming out the passenger side tale pipe and oil. I'm sure people have asked many times. Rebuild or new create motor. I'm really wanting to drop in a new 363 Ford Racing boss motor, the one with 507hp. I will detune it with a different intake as the one they used is to tall and a smaller 650cfm carb, just bought it a year ago so not going to buy another one. That should bring it down about 40 horse. I figure I will need to do frame connectors and a monte carlo bar. Any advice, suggestions?
No idea why anyone buys crate motors, aside from new engines like the Coyote, you can build the same engine cheaper 100% of the time
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post #27 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-06-2019, 12:05 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Klutch View Post
You are getting some very good advice here on both sides of the issue. My recommendation would be to rebuild what you have.

In addition to making sure everything behind the engine is up to the task, also consider you're going to have fitment issues. Does the new engine have a threaded hole in the block for clutch Z-bar? If not, sure, there are ways around that. But this is just one little example of many issues with such a crate motor swap. You won't know you have them until you get there.

As someone told you, it's difficult to put 500 HP to the ground in a vintage Mustang. Yeah, people do it, but the reality is they simply melt the rear tires. That's a lot of money to just make tire smoke. And a well built 289 can certainly do burnouts.

If you rebuild your 289 with good compression, a good dual exhaust and a good cam, it will be a very fun street engine. If you add aluminum heads, it will be a pretty potent street engine; more than enough power. Small block Fords are a LOT of fun when you give them a LOT of cam. Since you have a manual trans, you're already way ahead of the game for a custom, snotty cam (within reason).

It's your car, your budget and your decision. Someone here made a very good point about cost. Buying the engine is just the beginning of what will be a long and costly shopping list. If you expect this and are prepared for it, cool. Unfortunately, a lot of people have grandiose visions which never become reality due to cost and complexity. My take is it's more fun to cruise to Dairy Queen in a nice Mustang with a warmed-over small block than spending years staring at a bunch of expensive parts in the garage.

Whatever you decide to do, have fun!
Lots of good points. We haven't discussed rebuilding the motor much in this thread. I could have a cracked block. No one commented about find coolent on the pistons. I found a build guide on Mustang 360. I don't have a lot of faith in the shops people have recommended here. In the article they recommend boring out the main seal and putting in a one piece. When I talked to the local shops they said they never heard of that but could try. Not very reassuring.

I would go with aluminum heads and a roller conversion. These blocks and cranks are 53 years old now, doesn't that become a concern?

If I did buy a new motor their is a local restorer who specializes in mustangs I would use to install it. He actually recommend going new. Ford techs said it should bolt right in with no issues.

Thanks!

Last edited by gen3; 07-06-2019 at 12:22 PM.
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post #28 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-06-2019, 01:45 PM
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The coolant on the pistons is from pulling the intake. No worries there.

Did you do a leakdown test or even a simple compression check of the motor before you started to disassemble it? You might only need new valve guides and seals. Don't get too far ahead of yourself. That gets expensive fast.

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post #29 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-06-2019, 02:59 PM Thread Starter
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The coolant on the pistons is from pulling the intake. No worries there.

Did you do a leakdown test or even a simple compression check of the motor before you started to disassemble it? You might only need new valve guides and seals. Don't get too far ahead of yourself. That gets expensive fast.

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Yeah took it to a shop last year and they did seals. Every mechanic that looked at it said it's either a ring or cylinder wear. Thanks for letting me know about the coolent.
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post #30 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-06-2019, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by wicked93gs View Post
No idea why anyone buys crate motors, aside from new engines like the Coyote, you can build the same engine cheaper 100% of the time
Only if you build it yourself, and not everybody can or wants to do that.

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