Pulled my motor rebuild vs create - Page 3 - Vintage Mustang Forums
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post #31 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-06-2019, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by stephen_wilson View Post
Only if you build it yourself, and not everybody can or wants to do that.
If you can turn a wrench, you can rebuild a motor...it is not hard at all, just time consuming.
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post #32 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-06-2019, 04:36 PM
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Really ? Apparently you have been reading some of the screwed up home-builds on this site

Building an engine does require some specialized tools and a good skill-set, definitely not something everyone is capable of, or even has the desire to learn. Especially it it's a one-off.
That I think more than anything is a product of bad machine work . I try to avoid machine shops and hospitals


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post #33 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-06-2019, 04:50 PM
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I would go with aluminum heads and a roller conversion. These blocks and cranks are 53 years old now, doesn't that become a concern?

If I did buy a new motor their is a local restorer who specializes in mustangs I would use to install it. He actually recommend going new. Ford techs said it should bolt right in with no issues.
As long as it's not on its last bore and doesn't have any cracks or core shift, a 1965 block is just as good as a new block. BTW, if people tell you a bored engine will run hot, avoid advice from that person. Yeah, a lot of people will tell you they bored their engine .030" over and it overheated. But the overheating was likely due to a bad radiator, installing the head gaskets backwards or some other problem not related to boring. My 351 Cleveland is bored .060 over and has a 180 degree thermostat. In the winter, it runs a little cold. In the summer, the mechanical gauge sits right at 180 on the highway and bumps up to 190 at intersections. (I should probably run a 190 thermostat, but Cleveland thermostats are kinda hard to find. I will have to order one.)

If you're going to pay someone to install your engine, that's going to significantly add to the cost. Labor is EXPEN$IVE! There's no reason you can't rebuild and install the engine yourself. It's all covered in the book referenced early in this thread.

Yeah, it's getting hard to find a good machine shop. (A machine shop that doesn't know about converting an older SBF for a one-piece rear main seal sounds scary.) Since you have a classic car, again, it would be a good idea to join a local classic car club. Your fellow club members can recommend a good machine shop as well as caution you about shops to avoid. A good shop will inspect your block and crank and let you know if there are any issues. It's not very expensive to have the cylinders bored and the crank machined (if necessary). People have been doing this for a hundred years.

I'd be skeptical of anything from "Ford Techs". I don't know who those people are, but likely they couldn't identify a carburetor or ignition points. Bolting in is the least of your worries. I'd be concerned about things like brackets, pulleys, pilot bushing, flywheel, etc.
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Last edited by Klutch; 07-06-2019 at 04:53 PM.
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post #34 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-06-2019, 05:04 PM
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If you can turn a wrench, you can rebuild a motor...it is not hard at all, just time consuming.
I definitely disagree with that statement, but everybody is entitled to their opinion FWIW, I'm an accomplished wrench, and fix things for a living, but I have no desire to assemble a short block.

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That I think more than anything is a product of bad machine work . I try to avoid machine shops and hospitals
No, there's definitely been some assembly errors also.

'65 A-code coupe, T-10 4-speed, 8" 3.25 limited slip
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post #35 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-06-2019, 09:29 PM
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If I lived in CA I would go electric. I see a few shops there converting classics. Your living in the best state (imo) so there is a trade off
The only thing good about California is the weather (the value of that is never to be underestimated). But, really, this state hates business...which is why they're leaving. And, millennials are leaving in droves too because they can't buy a home without eating beans and rice for couple decades...not good.

An all electric classic...Good Lord! That's as crazy as free college!

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post #36 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-07-2019, 03:17 AM
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The only thing good about California is the weather (the value of that is never to be underestimated). But, really, this state hates business...which is why they're leaving. And, millennials are leaving in droves too because they can't buy a home without eating beans and rice for couple decades...not good.

An all electric classic...Good Lord! That's as crazy as free college!
I live in SACRAMENTO CA, and the LAST thing I'd do is electrify a classic! AAMOF, I started my '68 project to AVOID the stinkin' CA smog check program!

All these electric car drivers around me? Bless their hearts, more fossil fuel for me to burn

Put in my 2 cents for rebuilding your engine. Pull it yourself. Talk to locals, find the right builder to check your block over carefully and rebuild it into a nice 331 stroker short block with roller lifters. I'm saying 331 because I've heard, been told, that the 347 puts the wrist pins up so close into the ring lands and that causes problems over the long run. Compared to the new crate motor, you'll have money to spare to get nice new aluminum heads, roller rockers, have them gone over and installed by a good shop too. If you're not confident in your skills, you could even have a shop run your motor out, break it in on a stand and dial it in with your 650 carb, distributor, everything so it's turn-key. Then stab the motor back in yourself.

Then upgrade your radiator, suspension, brakes, etc., even tires and wheels if you so desire. If you don't get gratification from hunting down and hand-selecting all those cool parts, maybe this hobby isn't in your blood? This site is all about 'built, not bought'. The value and pride behind that? Priceless.
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post #37 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-07-2019, 08:22 AM Thread Starter
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Another option, Ford also has a 347 with 360hp. Now that would be a safer power level for this chassis, the hard thing to accept is that it costs the same as the 507hp motor.
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post #38 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-09-2019, 03:55 PM
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My car is a C code fastback and previous owners have done a number of things to move it away from original. For example someone painted it a 91 Miata green and added black Shelby stripes. Our uncle who owned it in the 70s 80s added headers a Shelby 9" rear end and hipo heads. Someone added an after market intake and an autolite 4, could have been our uncle.

I think most people stay original because it's a lot cheaper. The crate motor is going to be double the cost.

Yeah, and I'm in no way against modifications - some of my cars are stock, others are not, and I think if the car is already modified, it sort of frees you up to do what you like, rather than what you feel is proper, or "right" - you have a license of sorts to make it your own without guilt.
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post #39 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-09-2019, 06:19 PM
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Questions...
1. How do you intend to use the car? Will it be a dedicated track car? Street car?
2. Why do you want that 363 cu.in. Boss Ford Racing shortblock? Horsepower bragging rights?
3. What is your budget?

My advice... (it's only worth what you paid for it)
The Ford Racing 363 costs $5,200. Add another $2,000-3,000 for the special heads you need.
https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-6009-363

High horsepower is fine for bench racing bragging rights, but torque is king on the street! If you intend to use the car primarily on the street, you will want a long flat torque curve (albeit a healthy one), but torque is what you feel in the seat of your pants. And that's what's going to make the car FEEL fast on the street.

As others have pointed out, you can have your original engine rebuilt/stroked to make a reliable 350hp (or more) for probably half of what you'll have into getting that crate engine finished, installed, and all your accessories mounted, and you'll have $5,000 left over for chassis and suspension upgrades to make your car a total joy to drive.

I vote to rebuild the original engine! Have a shop rebuild it into a 347 stroker. And spend the rest of the money upgrading the brakes and chassis.

But... If you're bent on putting an aftermarket stroker in your Mustang, then you might want to read this article from another thread so you have something else to think about.
http://www.badasscars.com/index.cfm/...rod/prd104.htm

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post #40 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-10-2019, 01:08 PM
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If I had it to do over again I would buy a crate engine. I pulled the 289A out and bought a 351 block had it machined and stroked it to a 408 with AFR heads and a Lunati Voodoo cam. I have about $1000 more into this build than if I had bought a crate engine with those parts. If you shop around you can find the options you want. Plus you run into problems that this aftermarket part don't fit with that aftermarket part. Put it together, take it apart, send this part back. Much easier to buy what you want and save money.

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post #41 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-12-2019, 09:10 AM
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Pulled my 289 out today. Smoke was coming out the passenger side tale pipe and oil. I'm sure people have asked many times. Rebuild or new create motor. I'm really wanting to drop in a new 363 Ford Racing boss motor, the one with 507hp. I will detune it with a different intake as the one they used is to tall and a smaller 650cfm carb, just bought it a year ago so not going to buy another one. That should bring it down about 40 horse. I figure I will need to do frame connectors and a monte carlo bar. Any advice, suggestions?
I havenít read the entire thread, just jumped around to see what people are suggesting. I didnít notice anyone else comment on this but, the 363 you are looking at will be based off the 351 block, itís not much different than the 289/302 but it is taller and as such the heads are out just a little bit more (itís wider). So your tight engine bay is just a little bit tighter, headers are just a little bit harder, and depending on the rockers, if it has tall valve covers, the plugs will be a little harder (time consuming) to pull and replace.

Your 289 will plus out to a high revving 331 very nicely, and can make a very comfortable 400 hp (mine does 570 flywheel, 480 rwhp and without power adders). You could go higher, but 400 is an easy target, it can run on pump gas, and itíll live a long healthy life. You probably do not have a 9Ē rear, nor a transmission and driveshaft thatís rated for more than about 300 hp, if that. The only real problem with the 289 is youíll be limited on lifter design, beyond that it is as good as most of the others.

Find a machine shop that understands how to build a SMF, go with top shelf internals, AFR heads, Comp Cams cam and valve train, and as a stop light warrior youíll be VERY hard to beat. Donít fall in love with allure of Boss motors, or exotic materials; if this is a street car a hot 289 that can spin the tires in the first three gears is super exotic in itself. Then fill in any gaps in the rest of the cars performance.

The Total Control Performance (TCP) has a excellent array of frame and engine bay strengthening parts.

Good luck with it,

Darrell George
'66 Fastback
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post #42 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-12-2019, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by 66stangFb View Post
I havenít read the entire thread, just jumped around to see what people are suggesting. I didnít notice anyone else comment on this but, the 363 you are looking at will be based off the 351 block, itís not much different than the 289/302 but it is taller and as such the heads are out just a little bit more (itís wider).



The Ford Racing 363 is not based off the 351 block. Itís based off the shorter deck 289/302 block. Same stroke as a 347, but with a 4.125Ē bore, gives you 363.

https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-6007-Z2363RT





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'68 Mustang
347ci that has a lot of neat stuff in it
T5 manual trans, alum driveshaft, 9" w/3.70 gears
Suspension parts from SoT, Global West, Maier Racing, and a few others. Works for me!
TCP manual rack (love it)
EPAS (Love this the most)
VWW V45 wheels (like these too)
SoT 13" brakes (stopping is good)
And I finally got a paint job!
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post #43 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-12-2019, 11:41 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 66stangFb View Post
I havenít read the entire thread, just jumped around to see what people are suggesting. I didnít notice anyone else comment on this but, the 363 you are looking at will be based off the 351 block, itís not much different than the 289/302 but it is taller and as such the heads are out just a little bit more (itís wider). So your tight engine bay is just a little bit tighter, headers are just a little bit harder, and depending on the rockers, if it has tall valve covers, the plugs will be a little harder (time consuming) to pull and replace.

Your 289 will plus out to a high revving 331 very nicely, and can make a very comfortable 400 hp (mine does 570 flywheel, 480 rwhp and without power adders). You could go higher, but 400 is an easy target, it can run on pump gas, and itíll live a long healthy life. You probably do not have a 9Ē rear, nor a transmission and driveshaft thatís rated for more than about 300 hp, if that. The only real problem with the 289 is youíll be limited on lifter design, beyond that it is as good as most of the others.

Find a machine shop that understands how to build a SMF, go with top shelf internals, AFR heads, Comp Cams cam and valve train, and as a stop light warrior youíll be VERY hard to beat. Donít fall in love with allure of Boss motors, or exotic materials; if this is a street car a hot 289 that can spin the tires in the first three gears is super exotic in itself. Then fill in any gaps in the rest of the cars performance.

The Total Control Performance (TCP) has a excellent array of frame and engine bay strengthening parts.

Good luck with it,
Yup as already stated it's based on a 302 Boss block. And yes I confirmed what I was told my car does have a 9" rear end.
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post #44 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-12-2019, 12:23 PM
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The Ford Racing 363 is not based off the 351 block. Itís based off the shorter deck 289/302 block. Same stroke as a 347, but with a 4.125Ē bore, gives you 363.

https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-6007-Z2363RT





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Just to add: the larger bore really does a nice job of unshrouding the valves. A given head will outflow it's numbers if the rest of the intake tract is up to snuff. Not a bad way to go if you can afford to support it.

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post #45 of 45 (permalink) Old 07-12-2019, 01:05 PM
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Just to add: the larger bore really does a nice job of unshrouding the valves. A given head will outflow it's numbers if the rest of the intake tract is up to snuff. Not a bad way to go if you can afford to support it.

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Good point!


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-Chris

'68 Mustang
347ci that has a lot of neat stuff in it
T5 manual trans, alum driveshaft, 9" w/3.70 gears
Suspension parts from SoT, Global West, Maier Racing, and a few others. Works for me!
TCP manual rack (love it)
EPAS (Love this the most)
VWW V45 wheels (like these too)
SoT 13" brakes (stopping is good)
And I finally got a paint job!
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