1967 289 Hi-Po Horrible Engine Noise - Page 2 - Vintage Mustang Forums
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post #16 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-11-2019, 04:21 PM
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Fuel pump eccentric touching timing cover due to cam thrust issue and/or improper timing gear/eccentric setup?

+1 wrong cam gear ( late) with early eccentric. Just this old guys opinion too. Cover is now "clearanced" and pan is full of aluminum shavings. Hope I'm wrong for your sake.
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post #17 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-11-2019, 04:46 PM Thread Starter
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+1 wrong cam gear ( late) with early eccentric. Just this old guys opinion too. Cover is now "clearanced" and pan is full of aluminum shavings. Hope I'm wrong for your sake.
Randy
Thanks Randy.

I changed the oil a couple of months ago (first change after rebuild) and was careful to inspect the spoils for any shavings and found not a single fleck. I'm thinking from what you suggest things would have been bad from the start with evidence on that first oil change, no? Thoughts?

btw - On that first oil change I let it drain for a good 24 hours to make sure I got every last drop I could.

btw2: Was just down in the barn and fired it off again after cooling down... no squeak either cool or hot.

btw3: This is the fun part of old car ownership right?
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post #18 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-11-2019, 05:32 PM
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Thanks Randy.



I changed the oil a couple of months ago (first change after rebuild) and was careful to inspect the spoils for any shavings and found not a single fleck. I'm thinking from what you suggest things would have been bad from the start with evidence on that first oil change, no? Thoughts?



btw - On that first oil change I let it drain for a good 24 hours to make sure I got every last drop I could.



btw2: Was just down in the barn and fired it off again after cooling down... no squeak either cool or hot.



btw3: This is the fun part of old car ownership right?


Doesnít sound fun to me at all....



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post #19 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-12-2019, 02:07 AM
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Squealing like what you had is usually some bad metal on metal direct interaction that shouldn't be happening. Once that has gone on for a while it might wear the parts down enough that they are not going to screech anymore but the damage is done at that point.



The clutch in/clutch out thing is a bit curious. Isolate the problem between clutch issues and the engine. Is the clutch adjusted properly? Are the flywheel bolts all torqued to spec and loctited in. Same for the pressure plate. Is it possible that the clutch disc got damaged? Could it be the throw out bearing?



When you let the clutch out it puts a certain amount of force on the flywheel which in turn does the same to the crank shaft. This gets into the area of the thrust bearing and crankshaft end play. If it is too tight or the clutch is putting too much force on the flywheel the thrust main bearing can get get wiped out.


My first impression listening to your video was that you were spinning a bearing but disengaging the clutch would have no affect on that. It might be needed to drain some oil out and check it for bits of metal anyway to be safe. If you find metal in the oil you (or maybe the engine builder) is going to have to go back in there and find out what has happened.



There may be more than one problem going on which is always great for added confusion.


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post #20 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-12-2019, 04:03 AM Thread Starter
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Squealing like what you had is usually some bad metal on metal direct interaction that shouldn't be happening. Once that has gone on for a while it might wear the parts down enough that they are not going to screech anymore but the damage is done at that point.

The clutch in/clutch out thing is a bit curious. Isolate the problem between clutch issues and the engine. Is the clutch adjusted properly? Are the flywheel bolts all torqued to spec and loctited in. Same for the pressure plate. Is it possible that the clutch disc got damaged? Could it be the throw out bearing?

When you let the clutch out it puts a certain amount of force on the flywheel which in turn does the same to the crank shaft. This gets into the area of the thrust bearing and crankshaft end play. If it is too tight or the clutch is putting too much force on the flywheel the thrust main bearing can get get wiped out.

My first impression listening to your video was that you were spinning a bearing but disengaging the clutch would have no affect on that. It might be needed to drain some oil out and check it for bits of metal anyway to be safe. If you find metal in the oil you (or maybe the engine builder) is going to have to go back in there and find out what has happened.

There may be more than one problem going on which is always great for added confusion.
So as to minimize potential confusion, the clutch operation had no impact on the squeaking noise in the video. What it did impact was the hollow knocking that came along later in the day and I too suspect that to be clutch related somehow.

Thanks.
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post #21 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-12-2019, 11:01 AM
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Could it be the oil sliner problem with the timing gear?

I had that clutch noise and nearly crapped myself when I first herd it after my T5 job. A very rhythmic tap tap tap tap borderline knock down low. Its got to be the TO bearing, there is a difference between the 65-6 and the later ones that can stand some pre-load, IIRC. A slight pressure on the clutch and it went away.I adjusted 99% of it out where the rod/fork meet.
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post #22 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-03-2019, 12:51 PM Thread Starter
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Back at it...

Previously the squeak went away... now it's back and I'm digging in a little deeper...

Changed the oil and strained it, found a few small flecks.
Cut the oil filter open and found a couple of small flecks.
Cut the filter open from the first oil change and found a couple of small flecks.

When I say a couple I mean 2.
Only 2 oil changes, 320 miles and about 10-12 hours total runtime on the motor since rebuild
I donít think what Iíve found would be considered abnormal after a rebuild but Iím no expert.

With a stethoscope I poked around the top side of the motor. Mostly I couldnít hear the squeak through the stethoscope until I got to #3 on top of the valve cover.
Pulled the valve cover and it kind of looks like the push rod may be rubbing the head (see attached photo).

Iíd read on another forum someone once had a squeak and found a similar condition. Clearancing the head solved that guyís problem, have no idea if it would solve mine as I have no clue if thatís even the source of the squeak. Rolling the motor on starter only does not squeak. But tearing the motor down isn't an option just yet.

Another guy had a squeak that turned out to be a collapsed lifter which galled the push rod end preventing oil from reaching the rocker. I havenít pulled rockers and push rods to inspect but starting to lean that way.

A few of questions then:

Is it common for the pushrod to ride along the ďguideĒ? Could this cause a squeak?
Has anyone experienced a similar condition causing a similar symptom?
What would cause the pushrod to be misaligned in the guide if this would even be considered misaligned? The rocker is turned slightly counter clockwise, how does one go about correcting that (note, it seems to me this part of the valve train sort of finds itís own alignment as when itís relaxed the rocker can be rotated slightly, no?)?

I called the builder, he said I could pull the motor, bring it to the shop and heíd be happy to look at it... yeah, well, Iíll have to think about that.

I live in the boonies and all I can find is Mopar guys (and carb-bur-what? guys) around me so Iím kind of stuck trying to figure this out on my own.

Thanks to all whoíve replied so far and thanks in advance for any assistance anyone may offer going forward.
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post #23 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-03-2019, 04:10 PM Thread Starter
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And an old timer at a local machine shop suggested trying some Seafoam in the oil. I guess the theory is because it sat so long (like 3 years) before getting oiled up and first fire that maybe some of the assembly lube had varnished over... but then he owns a parts store that sells Seafoam : ). Just for grins - any thoughts on this idea?
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post #24 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-03-2019, 05:19 PM
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I know everyones skill set is different, but with a buddy you could probably have the motor out in a couple of hours. To me it would be worth the effort to head of the potential of an expensive catastrophic event.

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post #25 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-03-2019, 10:09 PM
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The slots in the heads are there for pushrod alignment and require hardened pushrods. I would check that particular rocker and fulcrum ball for "inconsistencies".

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post #26 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-11-2019, 03:53 PM Thread Starter
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Uploaded another, shorter video here:
. EDIT: This with the belts off.

I pulled the rockers and push rods for #3 and inspected and found nothing to suggest any binding or oil starvation... no unusual wear observed, all clean and smooth. Though I did notice a slight indentation on the top of the valve stems where the rollers sit. In addition the rollers aren't smooth through their entire rotation, feels like they each have some "high spots". Don't know if this is normal or not.

There is evidence of the push rod riding along the guide but not excessive, I suspect this is normal.

After putting it all back together and running, no squeak. Went for a run yesterday and the squeak was barely noticeable again when putting it away. Fired it up again this morning and the full squeakage is back, but with a new twist this time. On shutdown it seems to stop right at full squeak, it sounds like shutting off a squeaky faucet of all things.

To me it sounds like either the motor has learned to play the trumpet or it's a metal-on-metal thing.

I found this other video of a motor with a stuck lifter causing a similar noise:

Granted a totally different setup but a similar noise. Also, I don't get the same knocking as the RPM is increased but maybe I just can't hear it over the other engine noise.

Another diagnostic point is the squeak occurs at a frequency roughly 1/2 of RPM. To me this suggests something valve train related, like a bad lifter no? I think if it were an exhaust leak or something like that it wouldn't sound so much like a squeak.

Add to that I've been working with another issue found here: https://forums.vintage-mustang.com/v...ot-timing.html but I'm pretty sure that's resolved now. I am wondering though if running at excessive timing could have caused something here?

Thanks.
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