Just when things were going good...... - Page 2 - Vintage Mustang Forums
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post #16 of 42 (permalink) Old 07-20-2019, 08:56 PM
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It's like déjà vu all over again! https://forums.vintage-mustang.com/v...pump-fail.html. I ended buying a Gates pump from Rockauto and it was also China but a different casting. It's still in the box.

65 C Code hardtop from California still wearing it's original paint.
Roller 331, TW 170 heads, T-5z, FiTech EFI, FPA Headers, Arvinode exhaust, SoT Bilstien coilover front suspension, TJ on eBay 8" 3.40 Trac-Loc 3rd member. Mustang Steve 2008 GT bracketed 12.4" front disks
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post #17 of 42 (permalink) Old 07-20-2019, 09:00 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bmcgc View Post
Does your 65 FB have PS?

Im struggling with PS install on a 65 AC car.

My early Aug 64 (65 not 64.5) build 289 coupe has a cast iron WP, although I suspect it has a 66 block, at least the intake manifold is a C6.

Pics of your AC setup would be nice for reference.
Here is a pic before I put on the Fan.


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post #18 of 42 (permalink) Old 07-20-2019, 09:52 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nailbender View Post
It's like déjà vu all over again! https://forums.vintage-mustang.com/v...pump-fail.html. I ended buying a Gates pump from Rockauto and it was also China but a different casting. It's still in the box.
Wow, wish I had seen that thread before spending all day putting the new pump on!

The Flowcooler appears to be the Same defective casting as the parts store pumps with a better impeller.

The Gates pump is definitely a different casting assuming you get the one shown in the pic and not the casting that keeps failing. The Summit Edelbrock link is for a later style cast iron pump.

It appears the D code engines used the same pump as the K codes. Can any one confirm this?

Flade
68 289 convertible Candy-apple red & white
66 200 coupe Blue
94 GT convertible Red & black
98 GT convertible White & black
98 V6 convertible White & tan

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post #19 of 42 (permalink) Old 07-20-2019, 10:15 PM
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I think the 8842 will work as the shaft length is the same.https://www.summitracing.com/parts/e...2/applications

65 C Code hardtop from California still wearing it's original paint.
Roller 331, TW 170 heads, T-5z, FiTech EFI, FPA Headers, Arvinode exhaust, SoT Bilstien coilover front suspension, TJ on eBay 8" 3.40 Trac-Loc 3rd member. Mustang Steve 2008 GT bracketed 12.4" front disks
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post #20 of 42 (permalink) Old 07-20-2019, 11:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New2me View Post
I'm using a flowkooler aluminum water pump and so far so good. It's a bit pricey, but considering the problems you're having, I'd have to say it's worth it.
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Per the original Ford design, I switched to double belts for the alternator. The belts are brand new from NPD. All the pulleys are new. I hadn’t thought about the balancer, but the timing reads good, and I don’t see any vibration from it.

No power steering.

New doesn't mean good. Check Everything twice...
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post #21 of 42 (permalink) Old 07-21-2019, 12:43 AM Thread Starter
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New doesn't mean good. Check Everything twice...
Always good advice. I happen to have. 67 timing cover. It’s functionally identical to the late 65 cover, so I can swap it on and go with a decent cast iron pump. Lots of work, but it should be much more reliable.

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68 289 convertible Candy-apple red & white
66 200 coupe Blue
94 GT convertible Red & black
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post #22 of 42 (permalink) Old 07-21-2019, 11:59 AM Thread Starter
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Interesting, the 67 cover is cosmetically different from the late 65 cover (has less webbing) but carries the exact same engineering number and revision number. All the mounting points are different so it should swap right on. Apparently Ford even put out a TSB on the swap back in 66.

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68 289 convertible Candy-apple red & white
66 200 coupe Blue
94 GT convertible Red & black
98 GT convertible White & black
98 V6 convertible White & tan

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post #23 of 42 (permalink) Old 07-21-2019, 01:14 PM
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I run the Edelbrock high performance pump. Cnc blabla, roller bearing blablas and billet bla etcetera. Not cheap but it will probably out last my engine though. I rattled the shafts or bearings out of 2 stock water pumps drag racing the 289 north of 7500 rpms which I don't think they were intended to be rattled..


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post #24 of 42 (permalink) Old 07-21-2019, 02:16 PM Thread Starter
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I dug through my parts bin and found a late 65 style timing cover. I ordered a cast iron pump, gaskets etc.

Flade
68 289 convertible Candy-apple red & white
66 200 coupe Blue
94 GT convertible Red & black
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post #25 of 42 (permalink) Old 07-22-2019, 11:43 PM Thread Starter
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Well I think I know what is happening. The A/C fan is much more powerful than the 4 blade standard fan. It is pulling so hard on the front of the pump that it is pulling the front bearing right out of the pump. Once it moves out the shaft starts to wobble until it fails.

You can see the bearing on this pump. I managed to shut it down fast after it started to wobble.







You can actually see chunks missing on the inside edge of the bearing. Makes me wonder if they were damaged during assembly. In any case these pumps are clearly not up to the task. Compared to the new iron pump bought the aluminum pumps are downright dinky.

Flade
68 289 convertible Candy-apple red & white
66 200 coupe Blue
94 GT convertible Red & black
98 GT convertible White & black
98 V6 convertible White & tan


Last edited by Flade; 07-22-2019 at 11:46 PM.
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post #26 of 42 (permalink) Old 07-22-2019, 11:49 PM
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I'd try a Milodon pump. The one for the early timing cover should be a 16229.

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post #27 of 42 (permalink) Old 07-22-2019, 11:54 PM
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Yes, Go Milodon!

I would think you can't lose with a Milodon..

)

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post #28 of 42 (permalink) Old 07-23-2019, 11:02 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Woodchuck View Post
I'd try a MilCodon pump. The one for the early timing cover should be a .
Not sure what quality they offer anymore. The pics of that pump online appear to be the exact same casting as the parts houses that are failing.

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68 289 convertible Candy-apple red & white
66 200 coupe Blue
94 GT convertible Red & black
98 GT convertible White & black
98 V6 convertible White & tan

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post #29 of 42 (permalink) Old 07-24-2019, 12:20 AM
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I don't know how in the hell your fan has anything to do with anything... I run the stock AC 7-blade fan on my car with a fan clutch and it has not had any issues, nor have I heard of chronic issues with any of the fixed blade OEM fans. That's crazy! Wonder if you are just getting a series of bad water pumps...

I have an aftermarket aluminum pump from the 80's. When the impeller on that went (the bearing never did, it was the impeller that rotted out first), I sent it off to get rebuilt with new bearings and impeller. Reason is because I managed to kill two Flowkoolers within 5 miles, as well as one CarQuest brand pump. I've seen a lot of the "new" parts store pumps come apart in the past year and a half, actually. These days, I trust nothing!


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post #30 of 42 (permalink) Old 07-24-2019, 10:16 AM
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Per the original Ford design, I switched to double belts for the alternator.
I'd like to see some documentation on that. Pretty sure Ford never used a double pulley on the 65-66 alternators.


Amateur restorer. Well, sometimes I have been paid for it. But not right now.
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