Just when things were going good...... - Vintage Mustang Forums
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post #1 of 42 (permalink) Old 07-20-2019, 02:28 PM Thread Starter
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Just when things were going good......

I managed to complete the installations of the pulley, brackets, etc for the AC on the 65 Fastback I am working on.

Started it up and it ran perfect, all the belts straight spinning nicely everything looked great!

So I revved it up and BANG,!! Clank clank clank...

Ouch.....the fan started to wobble .....shut it down quick. And sure enough the fan moves back & forth..

Well crap. Tear it all down again......



The early 65 Aluminum water pump cracked letting the front bearings wobble. Dang thing was only 15 months old and just out of warrantee. Well at least they are inexpensive, and apparently cheaply made.

So skip a week and Iím putting it all together. Well crap again. The bottom two bolts are stripped.

They are the two at the bottom of the pump that screw into the aluminum timing chain cover. They are unique to the aluminum pumps.

They go through all the way through the timing chain cover. So can I try a longer bolt? How far can I go into the timing cover without worry about hitting the timing chain?

The other option is to pull out the radiator, condenser, etc, and put in helicoils......

Any thought??

Flade
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post #2 of 42 (permalink) Old 07-20-2019, 02:41 PM
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Ok, If I understand it all, since you're going to be replacing the water pump, can you not install Helicoils (or similar) in those bottom stripped holes, at that point?
Are the pumps these days that cheaply made, the snout is subject to break? Could the belt(s) have been too tight? BTW, are you using a torque wrench?

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post #3 of 42 (permalink) Old 07-20-2019, 04:31 PM
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Iíd go with helicoils. I had to repair a stripped threaded hole in one aluminium cylinder head where the P/S pump mounts. Itís a permanent fix.

I double stacked the helicoils to ensure correct thread depth.

If there are concerns about the drilling depth, cut a piece of tube a length that only allows the required drill depth, slip it over the drill bit and use it to prevent going too deep.
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post #4 of 42 (permalink) Old 07-20-2019, 05:23 PM
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When I built my race engine this winter, I had one tapped hole in the timing chain cover that was stripped. So I had the machine install helicoils in all of the tapped holes. No more worries.

Regards,
Patrick
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post #5 of 42 (permalink) Old 07-20-2019, 07:12 PM Thread Starter
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Unfortunately I didnít find out the threads were stripped until every other blots was installed I was going around with the torque wrench and these were the last too to tighten

Rather than rip it all apart a plain, I tired 1/4Ē longer bolts. I was able to tighten them to 15ft lbs so I thiní I am good. I donít think they will protrude into the timing chain area too much.

Since mid 65 all of the Windsor blocks used cast iron water pumps. In early 65 Ford used an aluminum pump. Itís likely I over-tightened the alternator belt, but I never would have expected it to split like it did. Apparently the aluminum is pretty thin there.

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post #6 of 42 (permalink) Old 07-20-2019, 07:20 PM Thread Starter
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Well crap times 2!

All our together, looks great, idles well, fan spins belts run straight, a little more belt slap that I like, when I really rev it, but didnít want to over tighten the belts this time...

10 mins later I rev it for a few seconds......it starts squealing.. I track it down....

You guessed it the front of the water Pump! WTF

I shut it down, and the fan wobbles again! Up and down this time, not side to side so it wasnít the alternator pulling too hard. It was just this crappy water pump design.

So has anyone recently used a 65 aluminum pump recently? Where did you get it? The first was from OíReillys, the second from Autozone, but they were identical from what I could tell.

NPD sells one, I wonder what brand it is.......

Other option move to the later cast Iron pump. Requires changing out the timing cover to the new style. What I donít know is if all the accessory mount the same

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post #7 of 42 (permalink) Old 07-20-2019, 07:20 PM
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WTF?!?? That's why the later Cast Iron ones are better...Not only that but they cool better too.

To me, I think maybe your belts were to tight and on an angle and putting too much pressure on the waterpump..

That really sucks!

I would go to SUMMIT and buy the best aftermarket aluminum pump that you can find.. then re-adjust all the belts... They don't need to be mother tight..

)

Tony K.
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post #8 of 42 (permalink) Old 07-20-2019, 07:22 PM
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Does your 65 FB have PS?

Im struggling with PS install on a 65 AC car.

My early Aug 64 (65 not 64.5) build 289 coupe has a cast iron WP, although I suspect it has a 66 block, at least the intake manifold is a C6.

Pics of your AC setup would be nice for reference.


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post #9 of 42 (permalink) Old 07-20-2019, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flade View Post

So has anyone recently used a 65 aluminum pump recently? Where did you get it? The first was from OíReillys, the second from Autozone, but they were identical from what I could tell.
I'm using a flowkooler aluminum water pump and so far so good. It's a bit pricey, but considering the problems you're having, I'd have to say it's worth it.


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post #10 of 42 (permalink) Old 07-20-2019, 08:00 PM Thread Starter
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No power steering on this car. I added the A/C but used original brackets and hardware

Tony I think you are right, it was too tight the first time. But not the second. Seems to be these foreign made parts canít handle the drag and weight of the heavier clutch fan.

Thinking I have t go with the late 65 style iron pump and timing cover.

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post #11 of 42 (permalink) Old 07-20-2019, 08:03 PM Thread Starter
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I'm using a flowkooler aluminum water pump and so far so good. It's a bit pricey, but considering the problems you're having, I'd have to say it's worth it.
Does you car have the early style timing cover made for the aluminum pump or the later style timing cover for cast iron pumps

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post #12 of 42 (permalink) Old 07-20-2019, 08:17 PM
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It has the early style, same as on the original D code 289.


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1998 5.0, fitech efi, holley in tank returnless pump
4R70W transmission with USShift quick 2 controller
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post #13 of 42 (permalink) Old 07-20-2019, 08:22 PM
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Couple of things come to mind. First, do you have a double belt on the waterpump that connects to a double down below. I actually run double belts with only an alternator. That way I can run the belts loose and save my expensive Edelbrock water pump.
I know you have AC what about power steering, could one of the accessories or alternator could have a bearing going creating too much drag e.g. bad pump or compressor.
Are any of the other pulleys out of round, could the rubber on your vibration damper have slipped?

You sure your belts are good, don't have any stiff parts or defects?
Unless your waterpump was defective, you have a problem that needs to be addressed.

Are you tightening your belts too much. Run them loose so they squeal a little then tighten them slightly.

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post #14 of 42 (permalink) Old 07-20-2019, 08:52 PM Thread Starter
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Couple of things come to mind. First, do you have a double belt on the waterpump that connects to a double down below. I actually run double belts with only an alternator. That way I can run the belts loose and save my expensive Edelbrock water pump.
I know you have AC what about power steering, could one of the accessories or alternator could have a bearing going creating too much drag e.g. bad pump or compressor.
Are any of the other pulleys out of round, could the rubber on your vibration damper have slipped?

You sure your belts are good, don't have any stiff parts or defects?
Unless your waterpump was defective, you have a problem that needs to be addressed.

Are you tightening your belts too much. Run them loose so they squeal a little then tighten them slightly.
Per the original Ford design, I switched to double belts for the alternator. The belts are brand new from NPD. All the pulleys are new. I hadnít thought about the balancer, but the timing reads good, and I donít see any vibration from it.

No power steering.

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post #15 of 42 (permalink) Old 07-20-2019, 08:56 PM
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Oh gosh... that looks a lot like the one I just got. Now you have me worried Best of luck with your rebuild.

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