Help with serpentine pulleys - Vintage Mustang Forums
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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-11-2019, 03:45 PM Thread Starter
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Help with serpentine pulleys

Would anyone be able to help tell me how to go about setting up my pulley system with serpentine belts.

I am running a SBF 347 (5.0 block)
KRC P/S pump
Edelbrock Water Pump 88413 (driver-side outlet, regular rotation)...this might not work.
PA Performance Alternator
4-bolt harmonic balancer

1. Should I simply buy the 6-spline pulleys and buy the bracketry after?
2. Do I need to buy the reverse rotation water pump?
3. Do I need a driver-side outlet?
4. Are there any bracket kits that you recommend?...preferably black.

Matt
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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-11-2019, 03:59 PM
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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-11-2019, 04:01 PM
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I bought brackets made by March.
They have a bunch of different options...I used their AC setup because I wanted the AC Compressor low on the passenger side. You didn't say you have AC, so this might work.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/m...gaAiZyEALw_wcB

They offer them in black too.

Call March and talk to them about the parts you have and what you might need.

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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-11-2019, 04:14 PM
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If you have serpentine belts, you MUST have a reverse rotation pump. Since you already have your radiator, and don't want to change it out presumably, get a pump that has the water outlet on the correct side for your radiator's lower connector. (top, as far as I know, is *always* passenger side) Using a long hose that passes under the front of the car to get to the other side can present problems with fan and pulley clearance, as well as collapsing when you rev the engine.

If you decide to get a different pulley and bracket set, make sure it's really a set. Trying to deal with all the individual pieces, and matching different years from different vehicles can present a serious challenge.

I have no idea what you mean when you say 6-spline pulleys. I mean, I know what splines are, and how they work with pulleys, but I've never seen splined pulleys used except on superchargers, so you kind of lost me here. I'm thinking that if there's a set of 6-spline pulleys to be had, you'd need a lot of other oddball supporting gear to work with it. Extra cost for no good reason, when there are so many good factory sets and aftermarket to be had.

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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-11-2019, 04:53 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmefly View Post

These are all great, but none of them run a KRC pump. I'm not sure they would work.

Matt
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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-11-2019, 04:56 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Babb View Post
I bought brackets made by March.
They have a bunch of different options...I used their AC setup because I wanted the AC Compressor low on the passenger side. You didn't say you have AC, so this might work.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/m...gaAiZyEALw_wcB

They offer them in black too.

Call March and talk to them about the parts you have and what you might need.
Thanks. I think this one comes the closest, but it looks like I would have to change to a reverse rotation water pump and may have to use a different water pump bracket. I'll check on that though.

Matt
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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-11-2019, 05:03 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimbrand View Post
If you have serpentine belts, you MUST have a reverse rotation pump. Since you already have your radiator, and don't want to change it out presumably, get a pump that has the water outlet on the correct side for your radiator's lower connector. (top, as far as I know, is *always* passenger side) Using a long hose that passes under the front of the car to get to the other side can present problems with fan and pulley clearance, as well as collapsing when you rev the engine.

If you decide to get a different pulley and bracket set, make sure it's really a set. Trying to deal with all the individual pieces, and matching different years from different vehicles can present a serious challenge.

I have no idea what you mean when you say 6-spline pulleys. I mean, I know what splines are, and how they work with pulleys, but I've never seen splined pulleys used except on superchargers, so you kind of lost me here. I'm thinking that if there's a set of 6-spline pulleys to be had, you'd need a lot of other oddball supporting gear to work with it. Extra cost for no good reason, when there are so many good factory sets and aftermarket to be had.
The engine is all new, fresh restoration so I'm starting from scratch. I've seen serpentine conversion kits for SBF, but it looks like they're all running dual belts to get around the "normal rotation" pump.

I accidentally bought a normal rotation water pump. The other problem is I have a KRC pump.

When I said 6-spline, I just meant number of grooves. Maybe I used the wrong term. Not sure. They make 8-spline serpentine if I recall, but those are usually for commercial type applications.

Anyway, thanks for your help.
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Matt
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-11-2019, 05:57 PM
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I've been looking at the Vintage Air Front Runner systems. Very nice clean install and has everything you need included. Eddie Motorsports offers something similar.
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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-11-2019, 05:58 PM
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Because V belts use the inside of the belt inside a deep V pulley on the waterpump, and all serpentine setups I've seen use the back of the belt to rub against a smooth pulley for the waterpump, as far as I know, *all* serpentine setups use reverse rotation pumps, without exception, and vice-versa.

The number of belts doesn't change this.


Your KRC pump has different pulleys available to set it up for V or for serpentine. I would recommend serpentine, for both simplicity, and to prevent a higher-amp alternator from slipping (which is always a problem with V-belts). And going off on a tangent, don't use one-wire alternators. The 3 wire version will deliver steadier voltage, and your battery will last much longer, along with several other significant benefits.

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Last edited by Grimbrand; 08-11-2019 at 06:02 PM.
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-11-2019, 06:15 PM Thread Starter
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Well foolks. I'm pretty sure in order to get everything on one belt I will have to buy a reverse rotation pump and a new radiator with a driver-side outlet.

So, I have a new (mounted only) Edelbrock Water Pump 88413 for sale and a new aluminum radiator for sale. I forgot the brand radiator.

They do make the serpentine "conversion kits" for normal rotation that require two belts, but I think a single belt is more desirable for what I'm trying to do. I'd like to keep this very clean. I'm pretty sure I can piecemeal the brackets myself and then buy the belts.

Thanks for all your help. Enjoy the rest of your Sunday.

Tired of researching this!
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Matt
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1965 Mustang Coupe 289 a/t Build Thread
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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-11-2019, 06:20 PM
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Matt, for sure, there are water pumps with outlets on whatever side, and whatever rotation you want, in whatever length you need! Just be sure when you get your reverse rotation pump that you get one with both outlets on the passenger side, and your radiator will work fine. =)
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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-11-2019, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimbrand View Post
If you have serpentine belts, you MUST have a reverse rotation pump. .
This is not entirely accurate. I have a dual belt system that lets me use a standard rotation pump.

FWIW, I have a March dual belt system. One side runs the water pump and alternator. The other runs the AC. Their AC bracket geometry was crap and I had to shim it...otherwise it would throw or eat belts.
Other than that, it does the trick. I can get you a part number if you want.

Otherwise, get the CVF system. Several folks have gotten them and like them. I'll use that on my other car.
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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-11-2019, 11:17 PM
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Sorry. Guess I should've said "on a single belt system". You're right - there are some multi-belt setups that do this. =)

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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimbrand View Post
If you have serpentine belts, you MUST have a reverse rotation pump.
Also, 80's Crown Vic, LTD and Grand Marquis had a standard rotation water pump serpentine setup(show below).

I used the WP serpentine pulley from one of these on my setup when I switched to a 4G alternator. Its made of a lot of pieces off a lot of different Ford vehicles(so most say it is too complicated), but works great.

https://forums.vintage-mustang.com/m...e-upgrade.html
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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 11:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimbrand View Post
Sorry. Guess I should've said "on a single belt system". You're right - there are some multi-belt setups that do this. =)
I'm pretty sure CVF's wraptor single belt serpentine system does not use a reverse rotation water pump.
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