Will '69 SSBC Slotted Rotors fit on '70 style aftermarket front spindles - Vintage Mustang Forums
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-18-2019, 07:16 PM Thread Starter
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Thumbs Down Will '69 SSBC Slotted Rotors fit on '70 style aftermarket front spindles

Guys,

I had a long post I typed up Friday night, but some how VMF timed out and it was all lost...so I'm keeping this one really short...cause it was a waste of time to see if all out POOF before my eyes the first go around.

Anyway, I had a real mishap last weekend, Saturday night coming back from a BBQ with a lady I work with, and who's husband own's a '66 Mustang convertible similar to one I had as my first Pony, but mine was a 6 cylinder with a 3 speed manual that I swapped from a '67 (Hurst shifter) and his is a 289 C4 Auto. Anyway...she asked me if I was going to bring it over to the BBQ and I said if everything is running well I will since I haven't it taken it very far or out much at all this season. Anyway to keep it short my '69 Convertible was driving fine, and I decided to take it on this hour cruise and everything was fine going there, but not on the return trip! When I left the BBQ, there were no issues with the suspension/ride feel at all...everything appeared normal and I went to get some pure gasoline (non-ethanol) 91 octane at Stewarts, which you can only get in Ulster county around here, since most close stations only sell the blended fuel. Anyway, I went up there and back down 9W and everything was find taking it up from 30MPH to 55 and the same on the return on the Western Bank of the Hudson River, and then I got on I-84 eastbound heading for home. Well it drove fine, going over the Newburgh Beacon Bridge, thru the tolls, and past the correctional facilities, doing about 65 MPH, then there is a construction zone after the I-84 Diner in Fishkill, where the speed drops down to 55 MPH, which I did. I was in the left lane, and all of a sudden my steering locks up, and smoke (burning rubber) is powering up over the hood from under the Mustang, and I'm skidding (wondering what the [email protected]#K just happened?) and luckily no one was next to me in the right lane as I made my way over to the shoulder! When I got to the shoulder there was a cloud of dust that kicked up and covered the convertible and me (like moon dust!), and I came to a stop... I had to wait many minutes before I could get out of the '69 Mustang due to heavy Saturday night traffic, and you guys how own a '69-70 know who long our door are (like wings when open) and I didn't want to get hit getting out of the car, after just making it this far successfully without killing myself / anyone else or destroying my Pony... I was stunned to say the least...didn't expect this! Well I could out finally walked around the Mustang checking the tires looking to see if any blew out but no did, and all held air. However when I got on to the guiderail and looked at the front passenger side wheel/tire it was kicked out at the bottom of the rim and leaning into the fender well at the top. I knew something broke!

Well after a State Trooper came to assist, and attempted to reach my classic Insurance tow service (Nationwide Roadside Assistance through American Modern Home Insurance co, GIECO's classic car insurer) with his cell since mine wasn't working, and he wasn't able to connect past the automatic answering menu...great when you need them they aren't there to assist you! So he had to call a local tow company, who came with his show truck/flat bed and $344 later I was back in my driveway! However he said as he pulled the Mustang up onto the Flatbed looks like the front hub is pulling out or away from the car.

The next morning I jacked up the Mustang to see what happened, and after I got the wheel/tire off the car, I saw that happened. The grease cap/nut/bearing that holds the rotor/hub onto the spindle was loose, and the spindle snapped about 1.5" in from the nub/cotter pin. I was like how can this happen? I know the '68-69 Spindles are a smaller diameter than the '70-73 mustang spindles but I never thought I'd break the ones I installed since I don't abuse the Mustang and don't race it or drive crazy with it. I barely put 500 miles on it a year these days, less this year because of various factors.

Anyway I've ordered a set of NPD aftermarket '70 style spindles which are thicker than the '69 spindles and I'm going to put the '70 tie rod ends on when NPD sends them to me because they sent '69 inner tie rods by mistake, and told me to keep them...so I have an extra set if I want to change them out at some point. They also recommend changing the wheel bearings because they're supposed to be larger than the '69 bearings. Is that true, since I've got SSBC slotted rotors on my '69 now after doing a disc brake swap many years ago. If memory holds, the rotors came with bearing races already pressed in the rotor hubs and will they need to be changed to fit the '70 style aftermarket spindles? Not sure? or do I need to get a new set of Rotors that will fit the '70 style spindles?

Any other suggestions to keep this '69 Front end together, and not have any repeat of that nightmare! Wasn't the ending to a perfect weather BBQ and cruise with the top down I wanted! But what ever is? Haven't had a nice night out with it in a long while!

ACK! Well...frustrated to say the least, and lucky to be walking and able to tell you about it, and to have my Mustang in one piece (minus the spindle!).

Yukon
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-18-2019, 08:55 PM
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Happy to hear you survived with no severe damage or injury!


The larger '70 spindle uses an A12 and an A13 bearing/race set. That ought to allow you to use your rotors on the new spindles. You'll also need the '70 dust/grease seals.
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-18-2019, 10:08 PM
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Sounds like your outer bearing seized up and snapped the spindle pin. Had the same thing happen on my '69 AMX but I caught it just in time and on our '62 Buick when I was a kid and my sister, riding in the back, says to my Mom... "Hey! Look at that tire rolling out there in the grass" and the ker-plunk at the same time.

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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-18-2019, 11:06 PM Thread Starter
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Woodchuck,

My wheel/rim stayed together on the rotor, which was held by the caliber and shredded brake pads, lucky they all held up, but I don't think the bearing seized up, plenty of grease is on it, but I'll look at it very carefully once the adjuster comes and inspects the damage. They're taking their sweet time, to schedule this inspection. The insurance company is already claiming the spindle is a replaceable wear and tear part. Come on, how many classic Mustang folks regularly change out their spindles because of wear? They're not brake pads and tires which we expect to change regularly. I hardly put any mileage per year on this vehicle and I never thought they'd snap in two? Like a bread stick. Clean break. I installed a pair of used Ford Front Disc Brake Spindles which came with calipers single piston, and dust shields, and power booster, that I picked up at a swap meet at Englishtown NJ many years ago. I had no idea on the number of miles that were on the original Mustang that they came off of, but I had them checked and cleaner up at a local machine shop and asked the owner to inspect them to see if they were safe to install, or if there were any cracks/etc. that they found? They came back with a clean bill of health back when I put them in my '69. No issues for over 10 years, until last Saturday night! Sudden snap, maybe metal fatigue? Nothing was in the road/construction area like plates or irregular surface/terrain....very strange event. Hope no one else has this happen to them.

I hope the replacement spindles (which are made with newer alloy metals) will be stronger but who knows these days? I am skeptical of everything made, and supposed to improve and be better than what came before. Progress has to be proven and maintained, sustained before I will think it is an improvement. Lasting for any substantial amount of time, is what lacks in the modern deposable culture we're in, with turn overs and new models that make everything obsolete so fast!


Just one guys view on state of things...

Yukon
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-01-2019, 05:55 PM Thread Starter
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I hit a road block, and its such a minor part that I feel foolish for asking for help with this one, but I'm stuck and tried what I know and nothing seems to get it apart. I'm in the process of taking my '69 Steering/Front suspension/Brakes apart after the spindle snapped. The upper Ball joint cotter pin will not come out, and the end that was bent (the end that doesn't typically go thru the stud) snapped off. Now I'm really at a stand still. The ends that are typically threaded thru the nut and bent around the nut appear to be straight enough but they will not go thru the nut/stud. I've used every plier I've got, but none of them will do the job. I've tried tapping it out and that doesn't work, but the alignment of any punch/hammer is
really tight because of the spindle itself is in the way the way the nut/cotter pin are facing. Any suggestions? I've got to get this apart ASAP so I can replace the damaged spindle/knuckle and other components.


I have a SSBC slotted rotor that I took off the side that broke, and the inner lip that I believe holds the grease seal (or maybe it is just inside of this inner lip, if someone could verify for me that would help) was partially broken off, and I'm wondering if I should consider even using this piece again? I'm leaning to NO...because I wasn't sure if they'd even fit the thicker spindles on the '70-'73 style aftermarket spindles that I'm replacing the '69 smaller ones with, but thought I put that out there for VMFers to comment on. The replacement rotors are not SSBC parts but some other Chinese version that NPD sent me, when I thought I was getting the last of their SSBC slotted rotors from their NC store/warehouse. I've got to give them a call on Tuesday and find out what happened to those?

Anyway, I'm open for suggestions on how to get these upper control arm/ball joint apart? Thanks.

Yukon
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-01-2019, 06:35 PM
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Subject--Will 69 rotors fit on 70 Spindles, NO
The races are different angle to bearings, which also are different degrees.

Drilled/slotted rotors. If all US auto manufactures deed drilled/slotted rotors were the best for all auto, all auto sold would have these on the show room floor.
Now why are the manufacturers not installing these on there lines? Reason, these rotors have less heat sink, warp much easier (guarantee factor) and they can't be turned down once distorted. Throw away, buy new.
So, yes if you own a Bently , can afford to change rotors, you race on a road course, can change rotors after each race, yes purchase drilled/slotted rotors.
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-01-2019, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukon View Post
I hit a road block, and its such a minor part that I feel foolish for asking for help with this one, but I'm stuck and tried what I know and nothing seems to get it apart. I'm in the process of taking my '69 Steering/Front suspension/Brakes apart after the spindle snapped. The upper Ball joint cotter pin will not come out, and the end that was bent (the end that doesn't typically go thru the stud) snapped off. Now I'm really at a stand still. The ends that are typically threaded thru the nut and bent around the nut appear to be straight enough but they will not go thru the nut/stud. I've used every plier I've got, but none of them will do the job. I've tried tapping it out and that doesn't work, but the alignment of any punch/hammer is
really tight because of the spindle itself is in the way the way the nut/cotter pin are facing. Any suggestions? I've got to get this apart ASAP so I can replace the damaged spindle/knuckle and other components.



Yukon
I'd soak it in good penetrating oil. Pictures might help. Do you have the tool to separate the ball joint from the spindle? It might be possible to take nut off without removing cotter pin but it will ruin ball joint stud and nut and probably require impact wrench. Can you turn spindle to get a better angle at broken cotter pin?
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-01-2019, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukon View Post
I hit a road block, and its such a minor part that I feel foolish for asking for help with this one, but I'm stuck and tried what I know and nothing seems to get it apart. I'm in the process of taking my '69 Steering/Front suspension/Brakes apart after the spindle snapped. The upper Ball joint cotter pin will not come out, and the end that was bent (the end that doesn't typically go thru the stud) snapped off. Now I'm really at a stand still. The ends that are typically threaded thru the nut and bent around the nut appear to be straight enough but they will not go thru the nut/stud. I've used every plier I've got, but none of them will do the job. I've tried tapping it out and that doesn't work, but the alignment of any punch/hammer is
really tight because of the spindle itself is in the way the way the nut/cotter pin are facing. Any suggestions? I've got to get this apart ASAP so I can replace the damaged spindle/knuckle and other components.


I have a SSBC slotted rotor that I took off the side that broke, and the inner lip that I believe holds the grease seal (or maybe it is just inside of this inner lip, if someone could verify for me that would help) was partially broken off, and I'm wondering if I should consider even using this piece again? I'm leaning to NO...because I wasn't sure if they'd even fit the thicker spindles on the '70-'73 style aftermarket spindles that I'm replacing the '69 smaller ones with, but thought I put that out there for VMFers to comment on. The replacement rotors are not SSBC parts but some other Chinese version that NPD sent me, when I thought I was getting the last of their SSBC slotted rotors from their NC store/warehouse. I've got to give them a call on Tuesday and find out what happened to those?

Anyway, I'm open for suggestions on how to get these upper control arm/ball joint apart? Thanks.

Yukon
Bite the bullet and hit the upper ball joint castle nut with an impact which will shear off the cotter pin in the hole. Then, later, if you can drive it out with a pin punch, good deal...if not, new ball joint.

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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-08-2019, 03:56 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for your suggestions. I was able to pull the broken cotter pin out thru the opposite end (that normally is spread apart thru and over the castle nut) using a set of needle nose vise grips that I purchased just for this, at Harbor Freight. I was glad to get that out. However, I have to pull out the front springs again, and shocks, to take the tension off the spindle knuckle. A lot of extra work just to get to the parts you need to replace, but I should know that by now...just a royal PITA... Anyone have best way of doing this, that they've used in the past?

I detailed the new replacement spindles with POR products (cleaner/metal treatment/primer and clear on the machined areas) and used Eastwoods Brake Gray Stainless paint as the top coat. They came out pretty good for a second try at this, over the original Ford spindles I picked up at a swap meet and detailed the last go round when I installed the disc brakes and front suspension modifications before this accident.

I also decided since I'm going to be taking this front suspension almost completely out again, I might as well bite the bullet and order the Opentracker Rollerized Upper Control Arms with the modified ball joint/and extra reinforcement plating that I think would be much better and a long term fix to, rather than the aftermarket upper A arm that I had a local welder and his apprentice (who didn't weld very well, sloppy job in my book), that had ball join boots that tore apart almost right after I installed them. I was going to install a pair of Moog Ball joints in the upper control A-Arms I have, but I'm going to pull them out. I may consider selling them to someone on VMF that is looking to do the Shelby Drop 1.5" (more than the standard 1" drop) and doesn't care how they look (like for a track car, or other non-show Mustang). I'm open to offers, but I haven't pulled them out yet, may be a few weeks before I get them off, weather and time dependent.

I'm going to replace the lower ball joints to, since the grease fitting just spin around 360 degrees and don't seem to take grease, so I am getting a pair of Moog lower ball joints from Opentracker (John) to replace these aftermarket one that I think are crap. So may parts just don't hold up like the original Ford stuff, but Moog is a good replacement and should last awhile (hopefully) without any issues.

Well I Have a lot to get done...and have to run out and get a few more parts for this change over.

Yukon
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-14-2019, 11:11 AM Thread Starter
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I'm at it again, however I'm still awaiting more parts from OpenTracker, (opted for the Reinforced Sealed Bearing Upper A-Arms w/ 1.5" Shelby Drop, plus new lower ball joints for my '69), but I'm attempting to remove the broken spindle and disassemble the other parts in the way or that will be replaced.

However, I'm at a stand still, because I can't seem to find a socket to fit the lower mounting nut on the KYB Gas A Just Front Shocks. I know I installed them, and I didn't use any special
tools, and not one of my sockets will fit the darn nut. Does anyone know the correct sizing of the mounting nuts on the lower studs of the KYB Gas Adjust Shocks? What did you use?

Plus the roller bearing shock perches I had made by a local welder (using Opentracker's specs/design from back before he was in the business of making them for his shop), didn't leave enough clearance on the outer shock lower stud, and I can barely get an open end 1/2" wrench around it. I was able to a few twists, but now, after about 3 spins, nothing...will not turn any more. I've soaked it again with more PB Blaster and will give it another try in a while.

I know you may be thinking I've answered my own earlier question about the size of the mounting nut size for the KYB front shock lower stud, but I've used every socket I have, Standard / Metric, short and extended length (1/2", 9/16", 13mm, 14mm, 15mm, 16mm) and none seem to fit over the nut/stud. Anyone have a suggestion on this? Very strange, since I put these in, more than 12 years ago, and now I can't seem to remove the darn nuts, doesn't make sense to me but frustrates the crap out of me! I know you can practically disassemble most of the Mustang with 1/2" and 9/16" sockets but not these darn KYB front shocks!

I am wondering if I will have to cut out the shocks if I can't remove them in the conventional manner. What's the best way to do that? Torch, chisel, saw? I am leery of that, plus this is all so I can get the center spring compressor on the progressive front springs so I can release the tension on them so I can remove the upper and lower ball joints and control arms so I can pull out the broken spindle. Any tips/suggestions on best way to get that out without messing with the spring and/or shock, may help this VMFer out, but only if I can manage to do it myself. Anyone got any ideas?

Thanks...

Yukon
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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-14-2019, 11:54 AM
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KYB in their infinite wisdom only lists a part number for the lower mounting kit on the KG-4517 front shocks (C1232).
Nowhere is it mentioned what the content of the C1232 kit is.
Another reason to dislike KYB in my book.
I have a trick socket in my drawer that uses pins to grip odd sized stuff. Don't laugh.... I've had to use that socket
in the past for stuff like this.

Snap a photo of the spindle when you get it removed. I'd like to see that.
I've seen spindle pin breakage quite a few times on Mustangs over the last 40 years.....
Ford increased that dimension for a reason. They don't spend money on anything unless absolutely necessary.

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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-21-2019, 04:01 PM Thread Starter
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Guys I contacted KYBs Tech support, they confirmed the '69 Front shock lower mounting nuts are 1/2", and I was able to get one of the nuts off last evening using an open end (which was the tighter squeeze of the two due to the modified roller bearings in the shock spring perch / support...no pun intended), and today I was able to free
the rear shock lower mounting nut using a 13MM which gave me just a bit of play to get over it, because the 1/2" didn't. I've removed the front left shock, but I'm
again stuck with this internal spring compressor that I picked up on Amazon. I have tried a few different ways of getting it inside the spring since it will not insert into the inner part of the front spring folded because once inside it can not be unfolded (not enough width in the diameter of that coil spring).

So I unthreaded the compressor's folding hooks, and inserted them and spread them out onto the coil spring before threading the center threaded rod into them, but that wouldn't work either. At least with the nut facing up toward the engine bay/top of shock tower. There isn't enough clearance on the bottom of the spring compressor after it passes thru the lower dual hooks, and it would interfere with the lower spring perch. Should I reverse this spring compressor, having what is the bottom in the above description, facing up thru the shock tower's opening into the engine bay (opposite direction of the spring perch) so the will be enough clearance as the compressor tightens up and more threads protrude thru the bottom hook section? This is the only other thing I can think of at the moment using this style of compressor.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Has anyone else used this kind before and what method did you use to get the spring compressed? Becoming more of a job than I would like... at this point. Any suggestions / tips to speed this process up would be appreciated. Thanks.

Yukon

PS: John, Opentracker called me, the other evening, saying that he's out of the modified upper A-arms that I ordered to replace the ones I currently have in my '69. He's said it may be a week or two before he can get them to me. He sold the last two pairs and they're custom built to order. So I have to wait anyway to get this pony at least half way back together..the other side may have to wait until spring unless I have enough time/energy to get the other side done before the snow falls. This is taking much longer than I expected to get back together after the accident but what ever goes smoothly and quickly in this hobby?
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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-21-2019, 05:34 PM
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I used the Open Tracker DYI roller kit for my upper and lower arms. Used his roller perches as well.
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