Shelby drop, like or dislike - Page 4 - Vintage Mustang Forums
 83Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #46 of 66 (permalink) Old 08-28-2019, 04:06 PM
Senior Member
 
New2me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Michigan
Posts: 582
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitey68 View Post
ok will type out hope it makes sense
L.F
camber -1.3 degree
caster-0.3
toe 0.01
sai 8.0
included angle 6.7


R.F
camber 0.1 degree
caster 3.4
toe 0.02
sai 7.3
included angle 7.4

FRONT


cross camber -1.4
cross caster -3.7
cross sai 0.7
total toe 0.03
Wow, I'm certainly no expert but that appears to be way off to me.
Grimbrand likes this.


Early 65
1998 5.0, fitech efi, holley in tank returnless pump
4R70W transmission with USShift quick 2 controller
3.00:1 8" open rear end
New2me is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #47 of 66 (permalink) Old 08-28-2019, 04:50 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,346
I'm not surprised that it doesn't drive well....

Get it aligned according to the specs on the previous page and make sure that both sides are almost equal and you'll be a whole lot happier.
Huskinhano and Grimbrand like this.
Helmantel is offline  
post #48 of 66 (permalink) Old 08-28-2019, 06:00 PM
Senior Member
 
GT289's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 8,311
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitey68 View Post
ok will type out hope it makes sense
L.F
camber -1.3 degree
caster-0.3
toe 0.01
sai 8.0
included angle 6.7


R.F
camber 0.1 degree
caster 3.4
toe 0.02
sai 7.3
included angle 7.4

FRONT


cross camber -1.4
cross caster -3.7
cross sai 0.7
total toe 0.03
As I suspected, not even close to what it should be.
I’d find another alignment guy.

ex-Global West GM
1991-1995
2nd 66 and Grimbrand like this.

As the drill sergeant said, "I taught you everything you know. I didn't teach you everything I know."

"Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so."
- Douglas Adams
GT289 is offline  
 
post #49 of 66 (permalink) Old 08-28-2019, 06:25 PM
Senior Member
 
Grimbrand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Sedgwick, Kansas
Posts: 758
Those settings are nuts. It's no wonder you're having driving trouble. Both sides really need to be close.



Also, don't forget that caster helps with return to center, and high speed stability. 3-3.5 might be fine, but you can dial it up if you've got strong arms and want more. It even helps with cornering by adding just a little bit of camber, bracing against the turns. Power steering like another point or two, because it takes some of the effort out, and also reduces return-to-center somewhat.
If you're running close to 0 caster, that's gonna be really wandery and weird. You ever get a shopping cart with a bent wheel that flutters when you push the cart? That's exactly what not enough (or even worse, negative) caster will do to your car. It *wants* to turn, when all you want to do is go straight.

"No matter what you are, be the best one you can." -Abraham Lincoln

Last edited by Grimbrand; 08-28-2019 at 06:34 PM.
Grimbrand is online now  
post #50 of 66 (permalink) Old 08-28-2019, 06:50 PM
Senior Member
 
kenash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Severna Park, MD
Posts: 6,271
Garage
Yes, find a shop familiar classic suspension. My home grown alignment was closer in specs. Sad!

KenA..
64 1/2 Poppy Red Cvt. Resto-Mod
333 Cu.in. T5z, 3:55, Dual 40 mm DCOE Webers
Performer RPM, CI cam, TFS/TWs, Tri-Ys, Discs w/Shelby Drums
Severna Park, Maryland
kenash is online now  
post #51 of 66 (permalink) Old 08-28-2019, 08:03 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Tunkhannock PA
Posts: 19,875
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitey68 View Post
ok will type out hope it makes sense
L.F
camber -1.3 degree
caster-0.3
toe 0.01
sai 8.0
included angle 6.7


R.F
camber 0.1 degree
caster 3.4
toe 0.02
sai 7.3
included angle 7.4

FRONT


cross camber -1.4
cross caster -3.7
cross sai 0.7
total toe 0.03
Wow, my first ever alignment came out way better then that. My car drove dead straight and the steering wheel was straight. This is why I get on my soap box and tell people try and do your own. If you know how to use a torpedo level, you can do a alignment.
2nd 66, englishman and Fishfreq like this.

Tom

One thing great about getting older. A life in prison sentence is less of a deterrence

Huskinhano is offline  
post #52 of 66 (permalink) Old 08-28-2019, 08:05 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitey68 View Post
ok will type out hope it makes sense
L.F
camber -1.3 degree
caster-0.3
toe 0.01
sai 8.0
included angle 6.7


R.F
camber 0.1 degree
caster 3.4
toe 0.02
sai 7.3
included angle 7.4

FRONT


cross camber -1.4
cross caster -3.7
cross sai 0.7
total toe 0.03
Hopefully that’s the “Before”. 🙂
swooshdave is offline  
post #53 of 66 (permalink) Old 08-28-2019, 09:01 PM
Member
Supporting Member
 
DEHABUR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: VIRGINIA BEACH
Posts: 42
Garage
Diy alignment

Quote:
Originally Posted by Huskinhano View Post
Wow, my first ever alignment came out way better then that. My car drove dead straight and the steering wheel was straight. This is why I get on my soap box and tell people try and do your own. If you know how to use a torpedo level, you can do a alignment.
Wow this is a great thread. Thanks for all the tech stuff. Not there yet but ready to learn. Right Tom?
Huskinhano likes this.

64-1/2 MUSTANG RESTOMOD
DEHABUR is offline  
post #54 of 66 (permalink) Old 08-28-2019, 09:23 PM
Senior Member
 
ricer333's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 338
I'm so glad this thread is still going. I had the drop done last year but I am going through some front end part replacement (new Bilstein shocks, shock tower braces) and I was wondering if I would need to redo the alignment.

The mechanic that did the drop and alignment is not very responsive.

Do I need to redo/recheck the alignment after shock replacement?

If so, can someone please post the alignment specs with the Shelby 1" drop done versus factory? I have a shop or two that I can get the car towed to after I'm done doing the work to have the alignment checked so I don't ruin the new dual redline tires

1965 Fastback Mustang
Rangoon Red
289ci V8, 4-speed Toploader
ricer333 is offline  
post #55 of 66 (permalink) Old 08-28-2019, 09:47 PM
Senior Member
 
New2me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Michigan
Posts: 582
If you aren't moving the upper control arms, your alignment should be ok since the alignment is done with shims between the uca and the shock tower. Either way, from opertracker's site

The performance alignment we recommend are:

0 camber

2deg to 3deg of positive caster ( 2deg for manual steer, 3deg for power steer )

1/8″ toe in

The camber and caster should be the same on both sides.


Early 65
1998 5.0, fitech efi, holley in tank returnless pump
4R70W transmission with USShift quick 2 controller
3.00:1 8" open rear end
New2me is offline  
post #56 of 66 (permalink) Old 08-28-2019, 09:52 PM
Senior Member
 
22GT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Southeastern Pennsylvania
Posts: 33,845
Quote:
Originally Posted by ricer333 View Post
I'm so glad this thread is still going. I had the drop done last year but I am going through some front end part replacement (new Bilstein shocks, shock tower braces) and I was wondering if I would need to redo the alignment.

The mechanic that did the drop and alignment is not very responsive.

Do I need to redo/recheck the alignment after shock replacement?

If so, can someone please post the alignment specs with the Shelby 1" drop done versus factory? I have a shop or two that I can get the car towed to after I'm done doing the work to have the alignment checked so I don't ruin the new dual redline tires
The shocks won't effect alignment, but unless the new tower brace (hopefully the OEM style export brace) drops on perfectly, then it probably will.

As for towing, if you simply use the "Mark I Mod 0 Eyeball" to set the toe-in, driving 10-20 miles should be no problem.

As for the numbers-
Attached Images
File Type: jpg ArningShelby Suspension Drop Alignment.jpg (534.7 KB, 8 views)

Amateur restorer. Well, sometimes I have been paid for it. But not right now.

Last edited by 22GT; 08-28-2019 at 10:11 PM.
22GT is offline  
post #57 of 66 (permalink) Old 08-28-2019, 10:05 PM
Senior Member
 
2nd 66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: New York
Posts: 9,643
Garage
All due respect to 22GT ,,But I wouldn't go by that chart for an alignment after going to the trouble of doing a UCA drop. those numbers where spec'ed for 6.95x 14 bias ply pizza cutters
I be more inclined to use this https://opentrackerracing.com/technical/
My self I use -1.5 camber +3.5 caster and 1/8 toe in
Huskinhano, Fishfreq and New2me like this.


Brad
2nd 66 is online now  
post #58 of 66 (permalink) Old 08-28-2019, 10:33 PM
Senior Member
 
22GT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Southeastern Pennsylvania
Posts: 33,845
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd 66 View Post
All due respect to 22GT ,,But I wouldn't go by that chart for an alignment after going to the trouble of doing a UCA drop. those numbers where spec'ed for 6.95x 14 bias ply pizza cutters
I be more inclined to use this https://opentrackerracing.com/technical/
My self I use -1.5 camber +3.5 caster and 1/8 toe in
We called them "sewer lids".

With that you are actually pretty close to the R Model specs, which did NOT use 6.95-14 tires. The 1965 GT350 (and early 66) used 7.75-15 Blue Dots. After the change, the 66 GT350 did use 6.95-14 Blue Streaks. 67-up used E70-15 belted tires, very wide for their time.

I merely posted the chart as an example of the factory specs for Mustangs and Shelbys, right out of the Manual. While they were intended for bias-ply tires, belted tires appeared, IIRC, in 1966. This significantly increased tread width on tires.

Certainly, using the street Shelby specs (since he has the "drop") would be a dramatic improvement over his really bad current alignment.

I have 205/70R14 tires on mine, and since they are radials, and I have the Drop, I go with street Shelby specs. The car tracks straight and true, the wheels return to center, and I don't need forearms like Popeye to run the fast lane change at autocross.

Different styles, dramatically wider tires, and racing would naturally call for refining the alignment.
2nd 66 and New2me like this.

Amateur restorer. Well, sometimes I have been paid for it. But not right now.

Last edited by 22GT; 08-28-2019 at 10:50 PM.
22GT is offline  
post #59 of 66 (permalink) Old 08-28-2019, 10:51 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
whitey68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: springfield illinois
Posts: 44
can you post the street shelby drop specs or is that what daze cars is?

66 Antique bronze mustang hardtop
289/c4 ac/ps/pb
whitey68 is offline  
post #60 of 66 (permalink) Old 08-28-2019, 10:54 PM
Senior Member
 
2nd 66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: New York
Posts: 9,643
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitey68 View Post
can you post the street shelby drop specs or is that what daze cars is?
from the link I posted
TECH INFORMATION
Alignment Specs to give your alignment guy or gal.
A proper alignment will do wonders for the way your car drives. We call it a performance alignment. The performance alignment has more caster for better stability and Zero or some negative camber for added grip instead of the positive camber the cars came with. Negative camber gives the car more grip but is driver specific. Grandma won’t need as much camber as grandson driving the same car. Tire wear patterns on the street or tire temps across the tread on the track will tell you how much negative camber to use.

STREET SPECS *
Caster:
+2 to +3.5 Manual Steer

+2.5 to +4.5 Power Steer

Camber:
0 to -.5

Toe:
1/8″ in

STREET PERFORMANCE SPECS *

Caster:
+2.0 to +3.5 Manual Steer

+2.5 to +4.5 Power Steer

Camber:
-.5 to -1.5

Toe:
1/8″ in

* Caster and camber settings should be the same on both sides for proper handling.

Arning drop ~ Shelby drop ~ 1″ upper arm drop
Overall performance improves when you lower the upper arm mounting point on the 60-68 Falcons, 64-70 Mustangs and certain other Ford/Mercury vehicles.

In stock form, the top of the tire moves outward as it moves up in the wheel well. Moving the upper arm mounting point down a bit, changes the geometry so the tire moves more straight up in the wheel well. That gives the car better grip and handling. There’s no down side to it other than having to drill four half inch holes in your 50+ year old classic.

Or if you prefer ,from Daze
https://dazecars.com/dazed/drop.html
Please align to these specs “1960-1966 Mustang and Falcon Performance Alignment with or without UCA drop”.

These specifications are in order of importance.

1. NO more than .25 degrees difference between driver’s side and passenger’s side.

2. +2.0 to +3.5 degrees caster.
NOTE: for cars with Adjustable strut rods. Please attain as much caster as possible using the shims (at least 1.5 to 2.0 degrees), and then use the adjustable strut rods to increase the caster and make the sides the same. Also, please note that the caster difference between the driver’s side and passenger’s side needs to have no more .25 degrees difference prior to the adjustment of the strut rods.

3. -.5 to 0 degrees camber. No positive camber, please. There is no problem having a slight variation from driver’s side to passenger’s side to account for the crown in the road.

4. 1/16" to 1/8” toe in

If you run into any problems attaining these specs, please call me (your phone number here).


Please align to these specs “1967-1970 Mustang, Falcon & Cougar Performance Alignment with or without UCA drop”.

These specifications are in order of importance.

1. NO more than .25 degrees difference between driver’s side and passenger’s side.

2. +2.0 to +3.5 degrees caster.

3. -.5 to 0 degrees camber. No positive camber, please. There is no problem having a slight variation from driver’s side to passenger’s side to account for the crown in the road.

4. 1/16" to 1/8” toe in

If you run into any problems attaining these specs, please call me (your phone number here).
Huskinhano likes this.


Brad

Last edited by 2nd 66; 08-28-2019 at 10:57 PM.
2nd 66 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Vintage Mustang Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome