Engine upgrade ideas (want more HP) - Vintage Mustang Forums
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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-21-2019, 02:58 PM Thread Starter
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Engine upgrade ideas (want more HP)

So lately iv had an itch to getting used car iv been thinking about get a 06-10 Jeep SRT8 420hp not bad. i got to thinking instead of pick in up a new maybe just doing a coyote swap on my 65, but after looking into lol i cant justify the cost of mods to the car plus engine! So i jumped on the forum and started doing some research and someone on one of the threads mentioned engine swap 331,347 or 363 plus EFI sniper kit (which i already have lol ) now its just a matter of finding an engine i was leaning towards Ford Racing 363 but maybe i can find a better & cheaper option, since i keep reading theyre over priced and built in china lol but the 500hp does catch my eye! so basically on here looking for option and opinions on who to get a good engine from?

https://www.prestigemoto.com/custom-...347-hr-c3.html

i came across these guys and seems like a cheaper option for the same HP but theres no reviews or anything for these guys on the forum


thanks guys

OH just want it for street use on the weekends and possibly take it on a road trip (iv got a 22 gal tank )



1965 fastback, 306, holley efi sniper, msd ignition, edelbrock performer rpm air gap, edelbrock performer rpm heads, lunati voodoo cam, hooker super comp headers, T5z transmission, 3.80 true track, disc brakes all around
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-21-2019, 04:09 PM
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Your Mustang can be made to run AND handle great, without getting close to the price of a new jeep or a 363 stroker. Forget Coyote swap. Why carve out the front end and put that monster up there, when a Windsor can deliver enough power to make this car scary fast anyway? Since you want to just have fun, and you want to drive on the highways too, if it was my car, I'd put in a roller cam motor out of a '97-2001 Explorer/Mountaineer, with a better cam and valvesprings. You wouldn't have to worry about additives for a flat tappet cam that way.

Then you can spend some money to upgrade your brakes and chassis to make sure you don't do a Pee-Wee Herman and plow into something. It's not reasonable to expect a car that handles only modestly well with 150 horsepower will do okay with 300+ You'd also want to put in a roll cage if you're getting up around 400 horsepower. Don't forget: it's not all about horsepower numbers - it's about power-to-weight, and your light little early Mustang can be wicked fast without putting 700 horsepower between the fenders. You might even be able to drive it in the rain.

If your old engine is in great shape, you might consider upgrading that instead, putting on some AFR 165 heads, better carb, intake, headers, and cam. With decent choices, you'd be hard pressed to deliver less than 300 horsepower to your rear tires. If you stick with a milder cam (great for street, and terrific average power over the whole powerband) you could even get as much as 25 mpg, making it fun on long road trips with your 22 gallon tank. Or if you don't give a rip, use a hotter cam that makes more power on the top end, giving up mileage and making it less fun to drive in stop-and-go traffic.

Lastly, don't forget to upgrade your radiator, and use either good electric fans or a shroud and thermal clutch fan to keep your upgraded powerplant cool.

Best wishes!
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Last edited by Grimbrand; 08-21-2019 at 04:13 PM.
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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-21-2019, 04:13 PM
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I think my Pie in the Sky would be a 351W stroked to a 427, forged 4340 crank, forged rods and pistons, o-ringed aluminum heads, rollers, somewhere north of 550 lift, tuned stainless headers, chamfered oil passages and glyptal oil valleys, windage tray with extra oil capacity and cooler, individual coils and a ridiculous intercooled supercharger. Just sayin.
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-21-2019, 04:33 PM
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Sounds like your 306 is already pretty stout. What are the specs on that Lunati cam?

If you aren't happy/are bored with an aluminum head fuel injected 306 perhaps it is indeed time for an upgrade. I'm really into building things myself these days due to honestly never being happy with any shop's work but that's something you have to decide for yourself. Whether you buy from someone or build yourself, in my opinion, there's two basic ideas for going up from a 306 but sticking with an 8.2 deck block.

There's the stock block 331 or 347. You'll probably want to shoot for around 450 crank horsepower. I'd still run the biggest heads you can afford and get your RPM range from the cam. I'd run a good hydraulic link bar lifter and 7/16 steel rocker arms.

Then there's the aftermarket block 331/347/347BB/363. You can run more RPM and more power but the block alone is going to set you back around $2000 before machine work. I'd go solid roller cam and put at least $1200 into the lifters alone.

You can, of course, run the aftermarket block with a more mild hydraulic cam and just have peace of mind that your block is not the weak link. You can also have a good mix of block strength and power by going with an OEM 9.5 deck block but you might hate it when changing spark plugs.

1965 Mustang

Last edited by jdub; 08-21-2019 at 04:35 PM.
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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-21-2019, 04:41 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimbrand View Post
Your Mustang can be made to run AND handle great, without getting close to the price of a new jeep or a 363 stroker. Forget Coyote swap. Why carve out the front end and put that monster up there, when a Windsor can deliver enough power to make this car scary fast anyway? Since you want to just have fun, and you want to drive on the highways too, if it was my car, I'd put in a roller cam motor out of a '97-2001 Explorer/Mountaineer, with a better cam and valvesprings. You wouldn't have to worry about additives for a flat tappet cam that way.

Then you can spend some money to upgrade your brakes and chassis to make sure you don't do a Pee-Wee Herman and plow into something. It's not reasonable to expect a car that handles only modestly well with 150 horsepower will do okay with 300+ You'd also want to put in a roll cage if you're getting up around 400 horsepower. Don't forget: it's not all about horsepower numbers - it's about power-to-weight, and your light little early Mustang can be wicked fast without putting 700 horsepower between the fenders. You might even be able to drive it in the rain.

If your old engine is in great shape, you might consider upgrading that instead, putting on some AFR 165 heads, better carb, intake, headers, and cam. With decent choices, you'd be hard pressed to deliver less than 300 horsepower to your rear tires. If you stick with a milder cam (great for street, and terrific average power over the whole powerband) you could even get as much as 25 mpg, making it fun on long road trips with your 22 gallon tank. Or if you don't give a rip, use a hotter cam that makes more power on the top end, giving up mileage and making it less fun to drive in stop-and-go traffic.

Lastly, don't forget to upgrade your radiator, and use either good electric fans or a shroud and thermal clutch fan to keep your upgraded powerplant cool.

Best wishes!
Well my current setup is 306, holley efi sniper, msd ignition, edelbrock rpm air gap, edelbrock performer rpm heads, lunati voodoo cam, hooker super comp headers, T5z transmission, 3.80 true track, disc brakes all around, redid my whole suspension control freak upper and lower, roller spring perches, Adjustable Strut Rods, frame connectors and caltracs lol for overkill
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1965 fastback, 306, holley efi sniper, msd ignition, edelbrock performer rpm air gap, edelbrock performer rpm heads, lunati voodoo cam, hooker super comp headers, T5z transmission, 3.80 true track, disc brakes all around
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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-21-2019, 04:51 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jdub View Post
Sounds like your 306 is already pretty stout. What are the specs on that Lunati cam?

If you aren't happy/are bored with an aluminum head fuel injected 306 perhaps it is indeed time for an upgrade. I'm really into building things myself these days due to honestly never being happy with any shop's work but that's something you have to decide for yourself. Whether you buy from someone or build yourself, in my opinion, there's two basic ideas for going up from a 306 but sticking with an 8.2 deck block.

There's the stock block 331 or 347. You'll probably want to shoot for around 450 crank horsepower. I'd still run the biggest heads you can afford and get your RPM range from the cam. I'd run a good hydraulic link bar lifter and 7/16 steel rocker arms.

Then there's the aftermarket block 331/347/347BB/363. You can run more RPM and more power but the block alone is going to set you back around $2000 before machine work. I'd go solid roller cam and put at least $1200 into the lifters alone.

You can, of course, run the aftermarket block with a more mild hydraulic cam and just have peace of mind that your block is not the weak link. You can also have a good mix of block strength and power by going with an OEM 9.5 deck block but you might hate it when changing spark plugs.
Specs on my cam Voodoo Hydraulic Roller Camshaft:

Ford 302, 351W
Lift: .549''/.565''
Duration: 272°/280°
Lobe Separation Angle: 112°
RPM Range: 2200-6200

honestly not to handy when it comes to working on the engine i can do the basics lol but wouldn't trust myself to do anything serious, the thought did cross my mind of maybe just replacing the heads and going from there



1965 fastback, 306, holley efi sniper, msd ignition, edelbrock performer rpm air gap, edelbrock performer rpm heads, lunati voodoo cam, hooker super comp headers, T5z transmission, 3.80 true track, disc brakes all around
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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-21-2019, 04:52 PM
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You have the starting setup of what I am probably going to. So you are at 320HP+? How much more HP you want? Since you already have heads and cam, how about just strapping a Supercharger on it since you already have the Holley EFI which I believe supports boost? Should add another 80HP+ easily to get you to over 400.
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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-21-2019, 05:07 PM
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While I agree that the idea of 500 horsepower sounds good, be careful what you wish for. On a street driven car, 500 horsepower in a 3000 pound car is honestly about bragging rights ("My d1ck is bigger than yours"). Depending on where that engine produces the power (say, above 6000 rpm) it may be barely street-able and a handful to drive 100% of the time. A well built 408 stroker will easily reach that horsepower level and still be capable of street use. A former member had such an engine in his '69 Sportsroof and it was a handful, earning the personalized license plate "SCARY 69". It was a brutally fast car.

url]http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k156/jefftepper/IMG_0027_edited-1.jpg[/url]

*Principal wrench on this 69 Mach I*
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-21-2019, 06:09 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by my289 View Post
You have the starting setup of what I am probably going to. So you are at 320HP+? How much more HP you want? Since you already have heads and cam, how about just strapping a Supercharger on it since you already have the Holley EFI which I believe supports boost? Should add another 80HP+ easily to get you to over 400.
yea close to that i was told it makes 320hp-350hp iv never had it dyno'd though. idk i guess it just doesnt blow my hair back like i was expecting. lol maybe anywhere from 400-500hp would be nice, i never even thought about supercharging it... now youre giving me something to think about



1965 fastback, 306, holley efi sniper, msd ignition, edelbrock performer rpm air gap, edelbrock performer rpm heads, lunati voodoo cam, hooker super comp headers, T5z transmission, 3.80 true track, disc brakes all around
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-21-2019, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by JeffTepper View Post
While I agree that the idea of 500 horsepower sounds good, be careful what you wish for. On a street driven car, 500 horsepower in a 3000 pound car is honestly about bragging rights ("My d1ck is bigger than yours").
Back when I first started modifying cars a 13-second car was faster than almost any production vehicle. Now you have ****ing KIAs running low 13s off the showroom floor. If that's not an invitation to build a fast car, I don't know what is. So maybe there is some ego to not wanting to get pumped by a stock KIA. But where's the cutoff for simply enjoying your vehicle, and bragging rights, as far as power to weight ratio? Who decides that? Why is a 300hp Mustang OK but not 500hp?

Let he who has a stock C-Code cast the first stone.

By the same token, there's also a bit of futility with so many high powered production cars out there today.

Quote:
Originally Posted by my289 View Post
You have the starting setup of what I am probably going to. So you are at 320HP+? How much more HP you want? Since you already have heads and cam, how about just strapping a Supercharger on it since you already have the Holley EFI which I believe supports boost? Should add another 80HP+ easily to get you to over 400.
Best idea so far. With the RPM heads your chambers are what, 64cc? Your compression is probably 9.5:1 or lower? Perfect for a blower if you ask me. Best part is you get to do everything at a lower RPM. A blown 306 making 400-500hp at 5500 RPM is less likely to split the block than a 347 that makes 500hp at 7000 RPM in my opinion. This is a good kit:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pax-1001864sl

It can be fine on a 400hp+ 306, but Engine Masters got 630hp out of the same unit on a 363, it's a good compressor.

1965 Mustang

Last edited by jdub; 08-21-2019 at 06:16 PM.
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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-21-2019, 06:18 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffTepper View Post
While I agree that the idea of 500 horsepower sounds good, be careful what you wish for. On a street driven car, 500 horsepower in a 3000 pound car is honestly about bragging rights ("My d1ck is bigger than yours"). Depending on where that engine produces the power (say, above 6000 rpm) it may be barely street-able and a handful to drive 100% of the time. A well built 408 stroker will easily reach that horsepower level and still be capable of street use. A former member had such an engine in his '69 Sportsroof and it was a handful, earning the personalized license plate "SCARY 69". It was a brutally fast car.
LMAO! Thats exactly what i wanna do a little d!ck swinging never hurt nobody Also want to be able to smoke or at least keep up with the newer 5.0 coyotes



1965 fastback, 306, holley efi sniper, msd ignition, edelbrock performer rpm air gap, edelbrock performer rpm heads, lunati voodoo cam, hooker super comp headers, T5z transmission, 3.80 true track, disc brakes all around
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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-21-2019, 06:23 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jdub View Post
Back when I first started modifying cars a 13-second car was faster than almost any production vehicle. Now you have ****ing KIAs running low 13s off the showroom floor. If that's not an invitation to build a fast car, I don't know what is. So maybe there is some ego to not wanting to get pumped by a stock KIA. But where's the cutoff for simply enjoying your vehicle, and bragging rights, as far as power to weight ratio? Who decides that? Why is a 300hp Mustang OK but not 500hp?

Let he who has a stock C-Code cast the first stone.

By the same token, there's also a bit of futility with so many high powered production cars out there today.



Best idea so far. With the RPM heads your chambers are what, 64cc? Your compression is probably 9.5:1 or lower? Perfect for a blower if you ask me. Best part is you get to do everything at a lower RPM. A blown 306 making 400-500hp at 5500 RPM is less likely to split the block than a 347 that makes 500hp at 7000 RPM in my opinion. This is a good kit:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pax-1001864sl

It can be fine on a 400hp+ 306, but Engine Masters got 630hp out of the same unit on a 363, it's a good compressor.
lol thanks man i was about to ask if there were any recommendations for a good supercharger now do they make a black one? lol i know its a classic car but besides the bumpers i HATE chrome! i tried my best to get rid of it all



1965 fastback, 306, holley efi sniper, msd ignition, edelbrock performer rpm air gap, edelbrock performer rpm heads, lunati voodoo cam, hooker super comp headers, T5z transmission, 3.80 true track, disc brakes all around
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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-21-2019, 06:32 PM
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That one is not chrome despite the picture (there is a chrome version), it's plain aluminum. I suppose you could paint it black if you wanted to.

Cheaper here:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/PAXTON-1001...M/291473507649

1965 Mustang
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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-21-2019, 06:55 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jdub View Post
That one is not chrome despite the picture (there is a chrome version), it's plain aluminum. I suppose you could paint it black if you wanted to.

Cheaper here:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/PAXTON-1001...M/291473507649
oooh thats only the supercharger lol thought that was the price of the whole kit



1965 fastback, 306, holley efi sniper, msd ignition, edelbrock performer rpm air gap, edelbrock performer rpm heads, lunati voodoo cam, hooker super comp headers, T5z transmission, 3.80 true track, disc brakes all around
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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-21-2019, 07:22 PM
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no, it's the whole system.

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