New wheels and tires rub, are the springs shot? - Vintage Mustang Forums
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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 08-24-2019, 11:58 PM Thread Starter
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New wheels and tires rub, are the springs shot?

Just installed American Racing TTD's and BFG TA's on my 1966 coupe.

Front 15x7 3.77BS with 215/60/15

Rear 15x8 4.5BS with 235/60/15

I thought this was a good set up for a stock suspension but both front and back rub when I hit bumps.

This car is new to me but I'd guess the springs might be original. There is a 5th leaf in the rear but it still sits low.

From the pics, are my springs shot? Not surprised they rub with so little clearance.

Would new springs on all four corners solve my rubbing issues or did I pick the wrong wheel and tire package?
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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 08-25-2019, 12:09 AM
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She's definitely sitting a bit low... Looks like suspension to me....just from the outset...

Nothing that a set of Konis or Bilsteins can't fix...

What's the history of the Front and rear springs in the car?

Having owned many sets of BFG's... I can tell you that they seem to be a bit wider than other tires of the same size....

I had similar rubbing problems with BFG's in the past...but I think you also have a height problem here as well more than the tires..

)

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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 08-25-2019, 12:13 AM Thread Starter
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I don't know how old the springs are but they have some overspray on them from a paint job done 25 years ago so they are at least that old. Might even be original.
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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 08-25-2019, 12:31 AM
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Time for new ones......I would start with the rear leafs first....then get a set of 4 Konis (or Bilsteins if you want to put up the cash since they are the best)....and then see how it rides and go from there.....but do those first...

)

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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 08-25-2019, 12:52 AM Thread Starter
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I just found some stock ride height info and measured my car. After adjusting for the change in tire size it looks like my car is a full 2" low in the front and 1 3/4" low in the back. That should make a huge difference to my rubbing issues.

Time for springs I guess. I'll look into shocks while I'm there.
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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 08-25-2019, 06:13 AM
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15x7 with 3.77" of backspace is a poor fit on the 65/66 cars. The 15x6 ttd with 3.66" of backspace fits great.I use a 205-65-15 on the front with the 15x6. You need a lot of negative camber to get the 15x7 to work. using a 15x8 on the rear you really need more backspace then 4.5". Something in the 4.75" to 5" works better. I have the same wheels on the rear but I narrowed the rear housing 5/16" on each side to get a better fit. increasing the ride height will help along with negative camber on the front. If you installed the 15x7 on the rear with your 235 tire you would gain about 1/4" of clearance.Then go buy the 15x6 wheels using your 215 tires for the front.
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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 08-25-2019, 07:31 AM
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Iím not suggesting you shouldnít get new springs and shocks, but you could dial in some negative camber in the front to fix that end. I suggest -1.5 degrees. You can also slightly roll the fender lips from about 10:00-2:00.

On the rear, I doubt you get the 15x8 with 235ís to work. The only way I have seen that work is with a narrower rear axle housing and/or flattening the wheel well lips.

Iíll add, the front to rear heights look good...regardless of the measurements.
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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 08-25-2019, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Buck View Post
Front 15x7 3.77BS with 215/60/15

Rear 15x8 4.5BS with 235/60/15

I thought this was a good set up for a stock suspension but both front and back rub when I hit bumps.

From the pics, are my springs shot? Not surprised they rub with so little clearance.

Would new springs on all four corners solve my rubbing issues or did I pick the wrong wheel and tire package?
The single most important factor in determining ride height is springs. While your front and rear shocks may well be overdue for replacement, they are not the cause of your rubbing/bottoming out issues. The backspacing on your front wheels is off from optimum by nearly 1/2 inch. That is significant especially on cars with intentionally lowered front suspensions via various means, or just old springs that have lost their mojo over time and sagged. Okay, so your front wheels and tires are sticking outboard more than they should at the ride height you have. You could get new stock spec coil springs which would raise the front of your car enough to negate that, or you could get different wheels that would fit better. A 15x7 wheel for your car fits best with 4.25" backspacing.

Your rear end issue is the springs are shot and you need new ones. As long as you're back there it wouldn't hurt to replace the shocks too, but it's the springs causing the problem.
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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 08-25-2019, 09:16 AM
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What the others say. Those are tough wheels to get working right on our 65/66 with narrow wheel wells and poor stock front suspension geometry. I'm running 215/60/15's all around on my 66. With the original leaf springs that were sagging I would get some light scraping time to time. My front suspension has been modified a bit with Street or Track. The upper arms are slightly shorter, have have been lowered which pulls the top of the wheel in instead of pushing it out as the stock suspension does. As mentioned run negative camber. I'm running a pretty fair amount, a lot more then you would normally on a street car and I still get a little scraping.

My suggestions. Sell the rear tires and wheels. Install your front tires and wheels in the rear and buy new 15x6 with 205/60/15 tires in front.

The other option. If your upper control arms are still in the original location, do the Arning drop. This lowers the upper arms 1" and back 1/8". This is meant solely to improve handling which it does in a big way. The side effects are that it lowers the ride height by about 5/8" and pulls the tire away from the fender. This and negative camber will help but it still may not fix it. You're still going to have issues with the rear wheel and tire package.


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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 08-25-2019, 09:19 AM
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Trying to cure rubbing tires with other higher or stiffer springs are a band aid. A big part of what makes a good handling street car is that the suspension can move the wheels freely up and down, a lot.
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post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old 08-25-2019, 10:00 AM
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In other news....GREAT LOOKING CAR

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Buck View Post
Just installed American Racing TTD's and BFG TA's on my 1966 coupe.

Front 15x7 3.77BS with 215/60/15

Rear 15x8 4.5BS with 235/60/15

I thought this was a good set up for a stock suspension but both front and back rub when I hit bumps.

This car is new to me but I'd guess the springs might be original. There is a 5th leaf in the rear but it still sits low.

From the pics, are my springs shot? Not surprised they rub with so little clearance.

Would new springs on all four corners solve my rubbing issues or did I pick the wrong wheel and tire package?
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post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old 08-25-2019, 11:14 AM
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On the surface of it the wheel and tire size combo he has on the rear might actually work (according to time honored fitment guides), but only if the rear suspension was set at original factory height. That is quite high and to many of us these days makes for an unsightly and unattractive look. As others have recommended I would back off and change that package, but maybe that height is what Uncle Buck wants.

Now take a good look at his wheel/tire positioning in the pic below. See that bias towards the rear of the wheel opening? That's the textbook sign of leaf springs that have lost shape memory, sagged and flattened out, moved the shackle attachment point rearwards and the axle housing to some extent along with it. The question is, what type of replacement leaf springs does Uncle Buck desire as to ride height and rate?
We could talk about that.
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post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old 08-25-2019, 12:13 PM
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A few things that’s sgould be mentioned:

- The wheel/tire combination that you went with on a 65-66 Mustang is considered to be on the aggressive side. With that said, it can be made to work, but you should expect that it’ll take some work.

- A good fender roll job and some clearancing in the problematic areas will be necessary.

- The sizes you selected match what I would use as well, but again, you shouldn’t expect this to be a install and go type of deal.

- Springs and shocks will help, but I don’t thing it’ll resolve your issue without the clearancing steps above.

Good luck

1967 Mustang
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post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old 08-25-2019, 12:46 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks folks. I knew I was pushing the limit but did think the combo would work. Old cars do like to test us!

This is the plan.

I'll do springs and shocks all the way around at stock height. I think the car needs them after seeing the ride height. I might do the 1" longer rear shackles as I do want the old school rake. (I've been in a lowered and blown s197 for 7 years so have done the dropped stance long enough lol)

I'll see if the tire shop will take back the 15x7 front rims and then I'll get some 15x6 replacements.

Since I've driven on the tires I'm stuck with them so will try again with the new springs and rim arrangement. I don't want to roll the fenders so last resort will be to sell some or all of the tires as used and try again.
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post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old 08-25-2019, 08:14 PM
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Don't be too hasty to get the stock height. I struggled between the reverse and mid-eye;s after reading some people thought their MEs were too high. Depending on your 5th leaf placement it might be dropping your ride. I suggest MEs for you at least.
Ive got an eyeball method for ride height. Picture a straight line from the rocker trim through the center of your axle. Yours looks to intersect the bottom portion of the axle center. Heres a good collection. https://forums.vintage-mustang.com/m...fferently.html
This is mine after 5 leaf RE's that advertise a 2" drop, they raised mine so it hits at about the center. Similar in the front, I have the double drop and 1/2 spring chopped.
Looking at Your Spring Results Differently.-kimg0259.jpg

Off hand comparative judging i would almost guess you have a 67'-8 rear which is 1" wider each side.

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