64' Toploader Questions - Vintage Mustang Forums
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-02-2019, 02:56 AM Thread Starter
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64' Toploader Questions

Hi totally new to this website, I bought a 4 speed toploader from 1964 which is before they changed the design. I'm planning to install it into my 65 mustang fastback with a hurst competition plus shifter but im not sure if it will fit correctly because the trans is probably pre-mustang. I don't know if its longer or shorter or if anything will throw off the alignment of the shifter and the hole in the tunnel. Thanks .
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-02-2019, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by christ99 View Post
Hi totally new to this website, I bought a 4 speed toploader from 1964 which is before they changed the design. I'm planning to install it into my 65 mustang fastback with a hurst competition plus shifter but im not sure if it will fit correctly because the trans is probably pre-mustang. I don't know if its longer or shorter or if anything will throw off the alignment of the shifter and the hole in the tunnel. Thanks .

Photo of the shifter linkage rear side will help a lot . . . .

I can tell you that the length from the front of the case to the rear of the tail housing should be 24". It is questionable if the 64' toploader will even bolt to your bellhousing as 65' was a transition year from using the narrow to wide case toploader.

Dennis

65' Stang Street/Strip:



Dart 434W NA, G101A 4 Spd, 4:56 rear, 93 octane pump gas pushing 3550lbs. [email protected]
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-02-2019, 01:10 PM Thread Starter
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I don't have a picture of the shifter because I haven't ordered it yet, here's the link though https://www.cjponyparts.com/hurst-sh...973/p/3737637/
I bought a lakeview bellhousing because i knew that there wouldn't be another way to get the transmission to bolt to a 6 bolt block. Here's some pictures.
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-02-2019, 01:14 PM
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Welcome Christ99! BTW, keep 'dem toes at a safe distance!
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-02-2019, 06:30 PM
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The tailshaft looks correct for the Mustang and its shifter. The main case is always the same length. You are correct that the Lakewood would allow you to mate it to the 66' block since it has both Toploader patterns.

I couldn't see enough of the input shaft to tell if it is correct. The part that goes into the pilot bearing needs to be approximately 1 1/4" long vs the 3/4" long one found behind an early Big Block motor.

You should count the # of splines at the back of the tailshaft which will be either 25 or 28 splines. 28 is preferred and would match the driveshaft yoke of a 66 Mustang. Otherwise you would need a 25 spline yoke. The 25 spline parts are considered to be weaker which is why Ford upgraded to the 28 spline parts mid year of 1965.
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65' Stang Street/Strip:



Dart 434W NA, G101A 4 Spd, 4:56 rear, 93 octane pump gas pushing 3550lbs. [email protected]
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-02-2019, 07:09 PM
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That trans does not bolt up to the 6 bolt bell housings that are common on 65 and 66 mustangs.
You will need a bell housing and 5 bolt engine block from a 64.5 to use that tranny.

Now if you have access to a lathe and a tig welder, then you can add a boss into the 6 bolt bell that will line up with the trans.

Sorry but you bought the wrong box. Sell it on an buy the correct one.

Everybody has to start some place
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-02-2019, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Asm109 View Post
That trans does not bolt up to the 6 bolt bell housings that are common on 65 and 66 mustangs.

I have the original 6 bolt bellhousing from my '65 (Sept '64 build date) 289 and it is drilled and tapped for the large Toploader/T10 bolt pattern only. I have an ancient Lakewood scattershield in the car (part number 1520 vs. today's part number 15200) and it is drilled and tapped with both the narrow and wide bolt patterns.
I'm sure that a competent shop could drill and tap an original 6 bolt 289 bellhousing with the small pattern.
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-02-2019, 10:43 PM
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If you look closely at said original bell housing you will see it is a thin walled casting with no meat where the small pattern goes. There are bosses where the wide pattern goes.

My sunbeam tiger has the small ear 5 bolt setup. Changing over to a 6 bolt is a pain.

Everybody has to start some place
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-03-2019, 04:13 AM
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Guys, in post 3 he said that he has bought a Lakewood bell housing (assuming 15200.) It will bolt up to the 6 bolt block and it would come with both the wide and narrow patterns . . . . .


Its a far better choice than trying to cobble up to a non-designed bellhousing . . . .

Dennis

65' Stang Street/Strip:



Dart 434W NA, G101A 4 Spd, 4:56 rear, 93 octane pump gas pushing 3550lbs. [email protected]

Last edited by dennis111; 09-03-2019 at 04:16 AM.
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-03-2019, 04:23 AM
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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-03-2019, 07:15 AM
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Make absolutely sure you dial in or center that scattershield. Lakewoods are notorious for being out of center requiring offset pins. Google aligning or centering a Lakewood scattershield. Its a total PITA but mandatory! Mine came in right at the spec limit of IIRC .001" so I didn't need offset pins.



My car came with a big block toploader with a long tail-shaft. For a Mustang, the shifter had to be mounted right between the two mounts bolt patterns so someone drilled a third set and shortened the drive shaft (~$100) to make mine work. It worked fine with a custom input shaft that was lengthened. Call Dan at toploader heaven if you need to trade tailshafts, I have heard he is reasonable for a swap. He can tell you by the casting numbers if you have the right one or not.
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