Will millenials ruin car value - Page 3 - Vintage Mustang Forums
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post #31 of 95 (permalink) Old 09-12-2019, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dobrostang View Post
My take is that each generation has a car that hits in their childhood and they modify in their teens/early 20s. Then when that generation gets older and has extra cash, they want to relive their dream car. Each decade of cars has had their heyday and waned. I point to the venerable shoebox Chevies 55-57, 10-15 years ago, they skyrocketted but as their generation is drifts into oblivion, interest in those cars is waning and prices are dropping. Mustangs are going to eventually go the way of the venerable 57 Chevy...
maybe then I can pick up a clean one and do a Tesla conversion


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post #32 of 95 (permalink) Old 09-12-2019, 11:09 AM
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It's not millenials, what will kill the value of Mustangs is the death of baby boomers...

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post #33 of 95 (permalink) Old 09-12-2019, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by wicked93gs View Post
How far back someone goes is dependent on personal preference....
Yes and the preference for the majority of people have a big connection to their youth. Don't expect people that are 20 years younger than you, to get the same preferences as you have.
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post #34 of 95 (permalink) Old 09-12-2019, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Westmus View Post
Yes and the preference for the majority of people have a big connection to their youth. Don't expect people that are 20 years younger than you, to get the same preferences as you have.
I guess its a moot point anyway, car culture in general, regardless of the vintage is dying. The wave of the future is self-driving vehicles that allow people to stare at screens the entire way...the interest in cars in general is starting to die out...they are now becoming the equivalent of elevators.
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post #35 of 95 (permalink) Old 09-12-2019, 11:44 AM
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If you're in this for the investment, you've already lost.....
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post #36 of 95 (permalink) Old 09-12-2019, 11:53 AM
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Baby boomers will kill classics

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Originally Posted by Jgroce1985 View Post
So guys just something that has been on my mind and with me buying and selling restores mustangs it seems the price is coming down or staying the same. So what do you guys think. Will millennials ruin classic car values? Even at the car shows no one is never standing around the classics anymore. It's like they just don't care
No, they won't.

Old guys own classics because they drove them in high school. Watch all the cars pull into a car show before the car show starts. 95% of the owners are older retirees.

Old guys are retiring and eventually they will sell their classic car when they're in their 80's or their family will inherit them only to sell them.

The general population of old cars will devalue except the very rare cars. Classics will come down in price and classic parts suppliers / manufacturers will eventually close their doors, beginning with poorly ran companies such as SSBC.

1960's classics were mostly driven by owner's born in 1940 to 1950.

Do the math...they're entering their 70's. You will see a shift in the next 15-years.

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post #37 of 95 (permalink) Old 09-12-2019, 12:08 PM
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Others have (correctly IMO) pointed out that the market is driven by younger people with bucks, and those kids will get the warm and fuzzies about rice rockets and current domestic muscle cars. There will always be some demand for all classics as people leave their age groups for cars that resonate with them.

What's in favor of vintage Mustangs is that they (along with their contemporaries) are among the last cars that will be easily restored. A modern car today is extraordinarily reliable, but they are also extraordinarily complicated and getting these things running and running correctly will be a big problem 40 years from now.

But I'm absolutely convinced that the coming changeover to electric or other alternative power cars will put a big dent in the gasoline collectible market in general. Some may become more collectible but most others will drop in value in my opinion.

Shoot me if you must, but there may come a time when a well executed electric converted Mustang may bring more money than it's gasoline powered counterpart.

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post #38 of 95 (permalink) Old 09-12-2019, 12:26 PM
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Here's hoping! I want to be able to afford a fastback or convertible some day. I'm 35 but was never drawn to what I grew up around (kind of hard to get drawn to a Taurus or Town Car.) As I got older I started liking older vehicles, and eventually got to the point where I wanted an early Mustang. It took me a long time to save up for it, but was extremely happy the day I got the slip. My car isn't done being fixed up but I'm already planning my next classic to build up (mid 60's to early 70's F100.) When I go to the Famous Ford's Forever show here in So Cal I don't even go near the new cars, but only the 1st gen cars (to see what ideas I can steal.) Sure I would like a new GT, since it's much safer with all the idiot drivers out there, but that won't be for some time.

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post #39 of 95 (permalink) Old 09-12-2019, 12:42 PM
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If you dont think the age of the owner has anything to do with it, ask Harley Davidson We boomers are getting old.
I think the reason Mustangs in any condition are priced high today is supply and demand. The Mustang population is dwindling due to age and lack of rust protection from the factory. I had to spend $7500.00 for a basic 6 cyl 3 speed and have already put another $2500.00 into it and I havent even started with paint/bodywork. It took me awhile to find anything under $10K that was restorable. I'll never make money on it. The same car 20 years ago could be bought for $2500-3000.00.

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post #40 of 95 (permalink) Old 09-12-2019, 01:21 PM
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I attend a bunch of local shows here. There is still much enthusiasm from the younger crowd when it comes to the classics. However, they usually all gravitate to the new Challengers, Camaroes, Vettes, and of course Mustangs, when they sow up. My kid who is 24 now loves the old cars but doesn't want to learn how to wrench on them or drive a clutch. My significant other says she is afraid to drive the car - or maybe it's just how I drive it . I don't want my ol' 66 Mustang to be left to someone who won't appreciate it or just sell it so I'm going to drive it until I can't then be buried in it!
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post #41 of 95 (permalink) Old 09-12-2019, 03:21 PM
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OK, I'm going to attempt to chime-in without getting carried away with the length..

There are a TON of dynamics being ignored or not thought of in this thread. For all the reasons you can think of for doom and gloom prophecy, there are also sociological and practical/functional reasons that push the other direction. Ebb and flow..

Some of the historical examples, like Model A and T values, are missing context.. Those were never "pricey" collectibles to begin with. Most enthusiasts for affordable and common pre-war iron were interested in having fun with the thing, touring, tinkering, driving.. Problem is, on today's roads with today's traffic, they just can't slice and dice with it. That's a big contributor.. You think a Mustang is dangerous on the road today? Driving a pre-war tin lizzy is comparatively suicidal. Who wants to buy an antique car that they can't begin to consider to load their family into? So yeah, that stuff is pretty stale. But values for the desirable pre-war iron? It's not on fire, but they're far from cheap or worthless. I haven't noticed much of a paradigm shift for the stuff that suffices as "rolling art", and looks great in a collection.

For those who think that the future is "Fast and Furious", and those that are younger than us will gravitate to the cars they grew up with... Think again... The complexities of modern vehicles, all of the electronics, wiring, air-bags, computers and controls, and exponentially higher precision of manufacturing that puts it all together... It's just not realistic or practical for a reproduction parts market to exist for those cars, nor is it realistic or practical that someone can do it themselves at home with a nice array of Craftsman tools, a compressor, and a welder.. Forget that.. Just forget it, it won't happen in any serious capacity. Even guys with SN95 Mustangs are going to run into serious road blocks when the supply of serviceable used stuff dries up.

There's a "sweet spot" in cars in trucks... A sweet spot where the styling is cool and diverse and old-school, that the vehicles themselves can actually run 80mph in stock form on the freeway, and carefully piloted are capable-enough around town in traffic. A sweet spot where the systems and mechanicals and overall construction is primitive enough that a lay-person can actually "DEAL" with it at home, or with a limited amount of outsourcing. And a sweet-spot where reproduction parts manufacturers can continue to "reverse engineer" without falling completely outside of tolerance and technological and material-engineering issues.

That sweet spot is a bit rough in the 50's, but really catches wind in the 60's, and lasts up through the mid-90's, although air bags and computers and construction begins to conspire against the sweetness of the spot in the late-80's..

Our cars can run with the modern stuff, but are simple enough to be a viable hobby. I am not saying that it will continue to GROW... No... I'm just saying it's not as doomy and gloomy as you think. It's going to flatten-out, but then it's just going to trudge onward from there.. And values, they could continue to roller-coaster gradually up just as it's always been as demand stays consistent but supply continues to dwindle..

Another thing that's forgotten is that every "trend" always seems to have its counterculture, and eventually a snap in the other direction. As much as kids seem to be buried in their phones, indifferent about transportation or cars, and society seems to lean towards auto-pilot driving, that creates a vacuum in people.. Young people love to be rebellious, and the moment you pigeon-hole them as being one way, they'll say F.U., and snap another, because they hate being stereotyped.

I'm getting too damn Freudian now, but, I drive old stuff around town A LOT.. Not just Mustangs, sometimes obscure uncommon and even "weird" stuff. And I find that with younger people, the weirder or more "era-indicative", the more smiles and finger-points and attention I get. Mustangs are always loved, but holy cow, I'm a rock star when I'm out in something a bit more exotic and "they don't do that anymore" like my '71 Riviera, or a gargantuan 60's Cadillac. Young people LOSE THEIR MINDS seeing that in a parking lot, intersection or gas station. They don't know what the hell it is, but it's crazy enough that it grabs their attention. Even more than a pony car.

I'll wrap-up... I dropped my 14-year-old daughter off to high school a couple weeks back in my 1971 Thunderbird Special Brougham 2-door. It's a mint un-restored survivor. Mustard yellow, brown reptile-skin vinyl roof, yellow color-keyed hubcaps, ginger interior with yellow hopsack-cloth inserts and bright yellow accent stripes (part of the Special Brougham package)... You catch my drift?? Most of the "old folks" look at the car and go "Geeyawd... It was ugly then, and it's even UGLIER today!!.."... LOL!!

At the high school?? You'd have thought I'd just rolled up in Beyonce's latest new custom-tailored Rolls Royce. Windows down, all I could hear from all directions was "look at that car!!"... "Cool!!"... "Man, that is SWEET!!"... My daughter probably wished she had a bag over her head..

In any case, there's hope, there's a sweet spot of 30-40 years where cars were interesting, simple, and fast enough and adequate-enough handling, and every time someone tries to say "it'll be dead in 10 years", it's not... Kind of like "climate change".

When I was a kid in the 70's, my dad was the "young guy" in the CTCI, doing 55-57 T-bird shows all over the country. Back then, most of the participants were gray-haired retirees, and most of them were sure that the hobby was doomed as soon as they croaked.

The ACTUAL reality is that retired people are more likely to have the time and the funds, and aren't shackled by vacation hours accrued to travel to an event.

It's always been this way.

And I hope to hell I'm right!! LOL..

Rick
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post #42 of 95 (permalink) Old 09-12-2019, 03:48 PM
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I was actually going to reply with something similar, in that somewhere between 1960-1970 most manufacturers adapted styling, drivetrains, and suspensions similar to what is still used today. Look at what a Mustang/Camaro/Challenger look like today, 50 years later... their original counterparts. 20's-50's cars require a lot of modifications to handle/drive 75/80 mph on the interstate safely and they don't really look like what's on the road today (which I think is cool, I especially dig late 40's/early 50's cars).

80s/90's/early 2000s cars were still simple enough that you can throw an old drivetrain in it, or still "restore" one with simple electronics. Then we had the electronics boom where everything in a vehicle is controlled by it's own computer, module, and sensors. Those are going to be an absolute bitch to restore someday, and may be too expensive to do so if parts are even available? Remember, in order for there to be aftermarket support, there has to be a lot of interest. How many, say, 2015 Camaros and Mustangs will be around in 2035 if there were only 50-60K built in any given year, with less than half of those being desirable V8's?

Early to mid 70's firebirds had about the same production numbers Mustangs and Camaros have today, 50-60K per year (before the 1977 sales explosion with Smokey and the Bandit) and when was the last time you've seen a 70-76 firebird at an average sized show or cruise in?

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post #43 of 95 (permalink) Old 09-12-2019, 04:22 PM
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Great points, Rick. That makes perfect sense.

And yes, that may be the ugliest car Iíve ever seen. It is super cool though.

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post #44 of 95 (permalink) Old 09-12-2019, 04:26 PM
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Rick, that is one incredible Bird !

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post #45 of 95 (permalink) Old 09-12-2019, 04:30 PM
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Either youíre going to the wrong shows, or you live in some awful, God-forsaken corner of the world. Few car shows around here have newer cars and at the ones that do, classics still get plenty of attention.
Just got back from Mustang Week / Mustang Invasion @ Pigeon Forge. Hundreds of Mustangs, and only about 5 classics. When I park my car with the rest, I do not get the attention that the new cars get. When you go through the photos that others take, there are very few of the classics. Their interests are how much HP can they get out of their car, and how loud can the get the exhaust. I will admit I get a few that are interested, tell me they like mine better than the new ones. But they are few.

I don't mind. There are a few that know what I have and that thank me for bringing it out, and driving it while others sit locked up in their owner's garages at home.
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