C4 to T5 swap - Vintage Mustang Forums
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post #1 of 42 (permalink) Old 08-27-2016, 02:39 PM Thread Starter
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C4 to T5 swap

Hello all, I am sure there have been plenty of posts on the topic, but I just can't seem to find anything on the clutch set up. I would like to install a hydraulic clutch but have not seen any solid parts set ups to know which one would be the right fit for my car. I recently picked up a T5 from a 92' GT with nothing on it. From what I gather I need the bell housing from 93' or older and I have also been looking at the conversion kit from Scott Drake. But they only have cable operated clutch set ups! So if you have a T5 swapped and have a hydro clutch, what set up is it? did you buy new or pirate from another car? Did you have clearance issues? Any advice appreciated. I am currently running a bone stock 289/C4 with headers in a 65 A code.

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post #2 of 42 (permalink) Old 08-27-2016, 05:08 PM
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Why are you hell bent on juice?
post #3 of 42 (permalink) Old 08-27-2016, 08:45 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by PetesPonies View Post
Why are you hell bent on juice?
I don't have to have it, I will run a cable if its too much of a money pit/ clearance obstacle. I was just curious if and what the T5 guys were running.

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post #4 of 42 (permalink) Old 08-27-2016, 09:37 PM
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post #5 of 42 (permalink) Old 08-27-2016, 11:03 PM
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I got a cable for mine. I've heard good things. Can't speak from experience because the engine is on a stand and the T5 is on the floor. Soon though... very soon.
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post #6 of 42 (permalink) Old 08-27-2016, 11:19 PM
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Cable is simple and reliable.
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post #7 of 42 (permalink) Old 08-27-2016, 11:24 PM
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Z-bar is simple, reliable and lasts forever. I did my conversion in '90 or so and the Z is still working well.
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post #8 of 42 (permalink) Old 08-27-2016, 11:40 PM
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I used a Ron Morris Racing clutch cable kit for my T5 install. No cutting, no welding, and it operates smoother than the hydraulic clutch in my 06 subaru legacy.
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post #9 of 42 (permalink) Old 08-28-2016, 02:44 AM
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I have the hydraulic clutch setup as in the link above. Mine is using an external slave cylinder. There are internal slave cylinder versions that go around the transmission input shaft, but I prefer the external type. If there are issues with the internal type, then you need to remove the transmission to get to it. With the external one, you can just unbolted it with ease.

I love this setup and it works with ease and is silky smooth. You get a very good mechanical advantage and I am running a performance clutch and I can press the pedal with ease using my hand.

My car is a 69 Fastback and the master cylinder is very close to the brake booster, but it does clear it fine.

I did have a cable clutch to start with when I converted my car from and automatic to a manual transmission. The cable clutch was okay and I was fairly happy with it. The problem I had was my exhaust headers were frying the cable and I could not see how this could be avoided. I tried wrapping the cable with a special heat shield cover, but it was still melting. The hydraulic system for me is better because I can route the braided pipe anywhere I want and get it well clear of the exhaust headers.

So I am not saying the cable clutch system is bad, but the above is what worked best for me. Other peoples installations will vary.
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post #10 of 42 (permalink) Old 08-28-2016, 07:06 AM
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I'm running mustangsteve's longer cable. No issue with cable melting. Hedman full length headers. Well over 10,000 miles so far.

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post #11 of 42 (permalink) Old 08-28-2016, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneTireFire View Post
…I would like to install a hydraulic clutch but have not seen any solid parts set ups to know which one would be the right fit for my car. I recently picked up a T5 from a 92' GT with nothing on it. From what I gather I need the bell housing from 93' or older and I have also been looking at the conversion kit from Scott Drake. But they only have cable operated clutch set ups! So if you have a T5 swapped and have a hydro clutch, what set up is it? did you buy new or pirate from another car? Did you have clearance issues? Any advice appreciated. I am currently running a bone stock 289/C4 with headers in a 65 A code.
Quote:
Originally Posted by victor View Post
Z-bar is simple, reliable and lasts forever. I did my conversion in '90 or so and the Z is still working well.
I would (and have) run the stock linkage with the T5 transmission. Extremely reliable, and easy to install. Even an amateur hobbyist can install a T5 to replace a C4 in a day with the stock linkage. To paraphrase Pete, why are you hellbent on going non-stock?

People often site "pedal effort" as reason for conversion. The pedal effort thing is due to the use of nylon bushings on the pedal. If you put the inexpensive Drake roller pedal kit on whatever you do, it solves that completely. My first use of that was on a 69 428 CobraJet, and the result was the otherwise stock setup could be pressed by an 11 year old girl. I had one handy at the time. Certainly invites comparison to "girly men".

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Last edited by 22GT; 08-28-2016 at 08:15 AM.
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post #12 of 42 (permalink) Old 08-28-2016, 09:54 AM
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I would (and have) run the stock linkage with the T5 transmission. Extremely reliable, and easy to install. Even an amateur hobbyist can install a T5 to replace a C4 in a day with the stock linkage. To paraphrase Pete, why are you hellbent on going non-stock?

People often site "pedal effort" as reason for conversion. The pedal effort thing is due to the use of nylon bushings on the pedal. If you put the inexpensive Drake roller pedal kit on whatever you do, it solves that completely. My first use of that was on a 69 428 CobraJet, and the result was the otherwise stock setup could be pressed by an 11 year old girl. I had one handy at the time. Certainly invites comparison to "girly men".
I'm with Pete and 22. I swapped in a Toploader years ago. I really didn't have too many options. But the stock linkage is like anything else. Everyone compares a worn out one with a brand new what ever. I made my own linkage with rod ends. It was cheap, easy and works silky smooth. Definitely use a bearing kit on the pedal hanger. Either the Scott Drake or the Mustang Steve's kit. I have the Mustang Steve's. It uses a lot bigger bearings and bearing cups that have to be welded on. It's a good kit to use if the old hanger is severely worn. Here's my linkage with the stock shown for comparison. The stock linkage is a known and most if not all headers are designed to work with stock. As with any modifications you have to look at the total cost. You may save some money in one area but my have to spend a lot more in another area for a custom made part to work with the cheap part.


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post #13 of 42 (permalink) Old 08-28-2016, 10:58 AM
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I just completed a c4 to t5 conversion on my 68. I went with the G force t5 and external hydraulic clutch. If I could do it all over again I would have went with a cable or maybe even an internal hydraulic clutch. Mainly because I am running full length headers. The clutch fork bracket and slave cylinder made contact with the headers. Had to dimple the header tube, cut a corner off the fork and bend the bracket that holds the slave cylinder. I also had to mount the clutch pedal bracket a tad different than Modern Driveline instructed due to interference with the parking brake assembly. Hope this helps you a little
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post #14 of 42 (permalink) Old 08-28-2016, 01:57 PM Thread Starter
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It seems cable is unanimous! Thanks for all the input, I will start looking at the cable kits a bit closer now. Although the Ford modern kit and the Z-bar kit are useful in their own right, it seems simplicity is the answer. I'll be honest, I like it when things don't break so easily, I have a sort of heavy right foot and ease of installation keeps the profanity to a minimum . The only other concern I have now is the actual clutch. From my understanding I can use a stock style clutch as long as the flywheel is 164 tooth? Oh yea and here is the trans before and after.
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post #15 of 42 (permalink) Old 08-28-2016, 04:31 PM
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It seems cable is unanimous!
Unanimous? Are we looking at the same thread? I would not use a cable if you paid me.

Thanks for all the input, I will start looking at the cable kits a bit closer now. Although the Ford modern kit and the Z-bar kit are useful in their own right, it seems simplicity is the answer.
So, all that drilling sawing, bolting of brackets, and welding for various cable conversions is simpler than just bolting in the stock linkage?

I'll be honest, I like it when things don't break so easily, I have a sort of heavy right foot and ease of installation keeps the profanity to a minimum .
Dunno what your foot has to do with installing, or for that matter breaking, the clutch linkage.


The only other concern I have now is the actual clutch. From my understanding I can use a stock style clutch as long as the flywheel is 164 tooth? Oh yea and here is the trans before and after.
The number of teeth is immaterial, you need either a 157 or 164 depending on the wheel / bell / starter you use. The actual clutch is the same on either wheel.
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Last edited by 22GT; 08-28-2016 at 05:11 PM.
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