BFG's at stock 14"/15" vs Michelin at 17" - Vintage Mustang Forums
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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-06-2019, 09:38 AM Thread Starter
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BFG's at stock 14"/15" vs Michelin at 17"

I really want to give a "stock" impression to even real mustang people, but not so much as to sacrifice my tire choice.My car is a 68 completely stock coupe in Diamond blue with Vinyl top. It is still wearing the 14" steels with hubcaps.
I want to keep the originality as much as possible while performing a couple of what I consider "required" upgrades for daily driving.
Required to me = 4 wheel disks that should fit under the 14", and wider rubber of the best I can put on the ground.
That means stock suspension, (with possibly the Shelby drop and increasing the caster to help with radial tires depending on how the car reacts).
The focus is daily driving with occasional highway trips with the wife.
No track, no hot-rodding, looking for safety, wet traction and ride.
Note: I am obsessed with Michelin because they are the only tire that has never failed me.

Here is the question:
Are the new 17" Michelins actually improved enough from the traditional BFGoodrich Radial TA (Traditional = my perception and a Michelin owned brand) to be worth putting 17" rims on. If so then what rim gives the most "stock" 1968 appearance.
If I could find "68 version styled steel wheels at 17" I would have no doubts.
Currently considering "68 version styled steel wheels at 15x8"
https://www.cjponyparts.com/wheel-vi...-1973/p/W04-V/
or
Legendary Wheel Styled Alloy at 17x8" (simulates the 67 styled steel wheels, but aluminum alloy)
Any one have picts of a 67,68 car with the Legendary alloys in 17"?
https://www.cjponyparts.com/legendar...1973/p/W981-V/
If I could find "68 version styled steel wheels at 17" I would have no doubts.
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Last edited by [email protected]; 09-06-2019 at 09:58 AM.
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-06-2019, 09:45 AM
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I don't think any 17" wheel will give a stock appearance.

On my car, I have a 17" version of the 15" cragar that Shelby put on the 65 GT350 and I don't think it really looks stock at all.
My car:


My inspiration car:


These give me the look I want and I needed 17" wheels to fit the bigger disc brakes.

But I think you need to go with a 15" tire if you want a stock appearance. Check out the Mickey Thompson Sportsman ST if you want another good 15" option.
https://mickeythompsontires.com/stre.../sportsman-s-t

Also, I thought you'd have to go up to a 15" wheel if you want discs...but I'm not positive on that.
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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-06-2019, 09:52 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you for your reply.
I edited my post a bit because I did not mention that I will at least go 8x15" with the wider rim replacement.
 
post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-06-2019, 06:27 PM
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It appears to me that you are all over the place on your wants. You state:


"The focus is daily driving with occasional highway trips with the wife.
No track, no hot-rodding, looking for safety, wet traction and ride."


For this specification you don't need an 8" wide wheel. A 6" wheel will work perfectly fine.


I hate the look of 17" wheels on a classic Mustang. 15" is the largest I can accept. And there are plenty of perfectly good tires for your needs in both 14" and 15" diameters. The standard excuse for people to go to 17" wheels is that there are no acceptable performance tires in 14" and 15" diameters. And then they state that they drive the car less than 1000 miles per year. For that kind of driving a 13" tire will suffice!
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Last edited by awhtx; 09-06-2019 at 06:30 PM.
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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-06-2019, 09:16 PM
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I'm sorta in the tire business ,and I'm not a fan of or impressed with Michelin tires. They tend to dry rot faster than others.
Front disk brakes are a nice upgrade from stock ,Rear disk are mostly bling.at least on a non track car. These cars are so light that by the time you dial down the rear brakes so as to not over power the front they won't be doing much.
You will likely have a hard time fitting a 15x8 under a stock front fender https://www.stang-aholics.com/files/...uide-67-68.pdf


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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-07-2019, 12:00 AM
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Reassess your priorities. These cars were daily driven just as yours sits, of course drivers were smarter then.
I had some $69 Dorals that I thought were an improvement over BFG TAs.
Stock brakes will fit under 14" wheels. Rear discs are overkill. 235 wide fit nicely on 7" wheels. I doubt you would ever over drive a 205 wide tire to the point that 225's would have helped, especially with stock suspension

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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-08-2019, 05:44 PM Thread Starter
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Responses to thoughts/opinions.

For those replying, thank you for your thoughts.
The overwhelming conclusion seems to be 15"x7 which gets me into the 68 steel wheels I really like.

A couple of points to cover:
1. If I gave the impression I was preserving history, my apologies, possibly I should have said "tasteful upgrades" which to some include 17", but I am not going retro-mod.
I have the car to drive it, not preserve history. I want to keep my car as original as possible but will make changes to ensure it is safe as possible so I can continue to enjoy it.
That means assessing what works where I drive in Dallas Fort Worth area.
I have been driving the current rubber bands and they are not really up to our highways.
Yes a lot of people drove on narrow tires for a long time, also without seat belts, a lot of them died too. Our parents were just not that concerned about safety and did not have to deal with the 80mph over the mess our hwy department makes. This including ruts that suck the narrow tires in and take you places you did not intend to go and few gully washers (super heavy downpours).
The point of the wider tire is more meat on the ground to handle the ruts and the modern tread to evacuate the water.

2. With, 8" is too wide... 7" is fine, I was going by the comments on the adds for cjpony suggesting that the 8" would work, but if I need to stay 7" then good, that is one decision point made.

3. Michelin's dry rotting, Yes they do, but, averaging over 12K a year, I would rather have the added traction and reliability of the Michelin compound and replace them when needed, but they are only available starting at 17". I have seen issues with many other brands (anything with a stone in its name or made in China.)
I do trust the BFG's for blowouts, but know Michelin on my newer cars outperform them. This is why I was trying to decide if the difference was worth changing the look of the car.

4. Rear brakes, I did not do that for performance. I was never able to get any drum brake setup to work right. I know some people can, but I do not know any.
In short, a man must understand his limitations and drum brakes are mine.

5. For those voting to stay with 15" for looks, yes I agree with the looks, that is why I posted this because I really do not want the 17". It just seems that no new updated tire designs exist for 15".
Who is making a really good all weather tire suitable for a 15x7 rim. ( 7" based on the advice here that 8" does not really work ).
Dan mentioned Mickie Thomson. (Thanks Dan) https://mickeythompsontires.com/stre.../sportsman-s-t

Any other votes/suggestions?
post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-08-2019, 05:53 PM
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I have thought of the following for a 15Ē street tire with a separate set of wheels and Avonís for track days:

https://www.discounttire.com/buy-tir...ouring/p/19852

James

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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-08-2019, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eitelbj View Post
I have thought of the following for a 15Ē street tire with a separate set of wheels and Avonís for track days:

https://www.discounttire.com/buy-tir...ouring/p/19852
linky no worky


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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-08-2019, 07:23 PM
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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-09-2019, 12:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd 66 View Post
linky no worky
Hmmm worked earlier. Seems the site is under maintenance currently. The link was to a Cooper CS5 Grand Touring time. Not a performance tire exactly but available speed rated and should perform well for a street tire.

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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-09-2019, 07:05 AM
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What Michelin's are you guys seeing dry-rot on ? After how many Years ? I've had Pilot Sports, Super Sports, and A/S 3's and never seen anything of the sort. Granted, they were 18's and never lasted more than 3-4 Years. I was pretty impressed when a SS with a slow puncture got me home with on 5 PSI left in it. I plugged the tire and it was good to go.
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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-09-2019, 08:57 AM Thread Starter
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Seems for this group, the Coopers are getting good press, they seem to be American, so I might give them a try, I think they make the Micky T tires too.
Seems the vote heavily for the 15" vs rim size upgrade too.

Dry Rot:
I was not going to argue with someone who claims to be "in the business" but....
My Michelins usually last longer than most tires so will get to a point of dry-rot before they reach the tread bars. They also give superior traction which is why I like them. Current fleet = 92 F-150, 97 4wd Suburban, 04 Dodge megacab (all with LTX), 04 Chevy Volt with whatever their most expensive uber premium tire was when I bought them, and of course the 68 Mustang in question currently wearing some hankook rubber bands that I bought it with.

Vendor Articles:
Ya, well, reminds me of when Discount Tire tried to tell me to put my best tread on the rear of a high strung fox mustang I owned. They actually convinced those poor kids that you get better braking with the rear doing the stopping. The kids actually refused to put the new tires on the front until I got the manager, showed him my purchase history, and asked if he really wanted to loose a customer over this kind of stupidity. He was old enough to actually understand weight transfer.
I suppose when a vendor starts trying to tell me something that does not align with 40ish years of experience, (farm kid, do not know when I started on the road, but way before I was legal), I usually have to wonder what their angle is. Possibly I just can not be told anything. We used to call that common sense or having judgement. I can only guess these "articles" are lawsuit driven. "we told you to leave it stock".

Anyone who has ever rode a motorcycle, driven a Model T (ya my dad has one), started on bias ply narrow rubber bands, driven on roads that were rutted when muddy but are now dry, driven a tractor (the ones with narrow, rut following front tires, ya we do that on purpose to easly follow the furrow) driven a variety of cars and tire sizes, or has one ounce of common sense knows that wider tires stay out of the ruts better.

There is some truth in the articles, which is the core of most deceptions, but the assertion that wider tires make rut following worse is absurd.
Wider tires do change the stresses on the suspension, and bad offsets will cause bad issues. Significant camber/toe will also cause issues when one tire hits something unusual, shorter sidewalls can make the tire more ridged and make them ride worse, depending on the tire of course.
All the negatives are when stupid people take things to extremes which is not what I am doing.
post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-09-2019, 10:44 AM
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I forgot, I do have Michelin LTX's on my truck that are around 6 Years old, and look fine.
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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-10-2019, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stephen_wilson View Post
I forgot, I do have Michelin LTX's on my truck that are around 6 Years old, and look fine.
I am on my second set of Michelin LTX on my F150. I got a lot of miles out of the first set and they are the best wet weather tire I have ever used. I mean blasting on down the highway when everyone has emergency blinkers in the slow or emergency lane good. Very good on snow too, not snow tire good but close.

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